Coaches told Incognito to toughen Martin up

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

that would have gone better in another thread. 

[MikeO]

That is a huge leap.  If the president brought up the issue, it is meaningful.  A reporter asked a question, means the reporter thinks it is important not that the Pres is planning to get involved.  

Agreed! Presidents get asked silly questions all the time. Doesn't mean they will launch a full investigation on the matter.

[EKnight]

I'm not saying they will or won't. I'm saying that if they got involved with PEDs in baseball as a stand alone issue, how can you say with 100% certainty they won't be involved here? I actually think it's unlikely, but I'm still trying to figure out how the baseball thing was a Congressional matter too. Given that situation, there's just no way to say anything with 100% certainty at this point, other than the fact that anyone who defends the actions of Incognito, his teammates who "rally" around him (notice most of the rest of the NFL thinks he's a douche for doing this), and the coaching staff who were clearly involved, is a jackass. -EK

[Brian Fein]

He didn't "miss practice"!

He elected not to attend a voluntary off-season workout.  According to the terms of the CBA, there should be zero management response to that.  ZERO.  Instead, management chose to send a player accused of harassing Martin to "toughen him up."  That is retaliation, plain as day.

Or (depending on timing), maybe Martin skipped the voluntary workout, then they sent Incognito (a player with a known history of behavior problems) after him.  In that case, management was responsible for making sure that Incognito "toughened Martin up" in a way that was in concert with team guidelines.  Not only did they not monitor the situation, as late as Sunday they were claiming they didn't even know it existed.

You completely disregarded the meat of the post in favor of an argument of semantics.  If the coach wants to know why Jonathan Martin missed a voluntary workout, a team practice, a photo shoot, or a kid's birthday party, the hypothetical situation remains the same.

Consider they asked Richie Incognito, captain of the offensive line and veteran leader of the club, to talk to Jonathan Martin, and not psychopath murderer Richie Incognito.  The story you are portraying changes completely, from "deliberate retaliation" to "normal behavior" which was taken too far by one person.

YOU are the one OVERplaying the story, not everyone else UNDERplaying it.

[Spider-Dan]

You completely disregarded the meat of the post in favor of an argument of semantics.  If the coach wants to know why Jonathan Martin missed a voluntary workout, a team practice, a photo shoot, or a kid's birthday party, the hypothetical situation remains the same.

It's not semantics.  This is like your boss telling someone to "toughen you up" because you took vacation time that you had earned.  It is nothing like missing the team photo or a team charity event or anything where your attendance is expected/required.

Consider they asked Richie Incognito, captain of the offensive line and veteran leader of the club, to talk to Jonathan Martin, and not psychopath murderer Richie Incognito.

Consider that in this case, veteran leader and sociopath who had been kicked off of multiple teams for his conduct are both equally accurate.

The story you are portraying changes completely, from "deliberate retaliation" to "normal behavior" which was taken too far by one person.

First off: I'm not talking about what Incognito actually did.  That is outside the scope of the retaliation issue.  With that established, either:

1) Martin did not attend the voluntary workout, Philbin sent Incognito to "toughen him up," Incognito went overboard, Martin complained, and Philbin did nothing.  This makes Philbin incompetent, and passively complicit through willful ignorance (in the same vein as JoePa, but on a matter of decidedly less import).

or

2) Incognito was doing his thing from the start, Martin complained, Martin did not attend the voluntary workout, and then Philbin sent Incognito to "toughen him up."  Sending Incognito to "helpfully mentor" the person who has previously complained about harassment from him is retaliation, and Philbin has actively and intentionallly created a hostile work environment for Martin.

[Brian Fein]

You're wrong.  You're joining two items together without any evidence that they are related.  You're assuming that the "toughen up" comment was made as a result of missing OTA's.  Prove it.  You can't assume that one is a direct result of the other.  You're also assuming the Martin directly pointed out Incognito in his initial complaint, which I have not seen specified anywhere.

Regardless of timeline, making that jump is pure speculation.  Details matter.

[Spider-Dan]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-hazing-1106-20131105,0,1628986.story

Miami Dolphins coaches asked player Richie Incognito, who was the offensive line's undisputed leader, to toughen up teammate Jonathan Martin after he missed a voluntary workout last spring, multiple sources told the Sun Sentinel.

If you're going to claim that this is ambiguous then the entire concept of retaliation goes out the window.  "Just because a player reported illegal PED use in the locker room and we cut the player a week later, why are you calling it retaliation?"

[Heatles]

Does this type of bullying and pranking happen in other organizations around the NFL?

It would seem to me that a group of people trying to work together to become the best in the world at something wouldn't do these types of things very often. I'm just not sure how organizing pranks in the lunch room and verbally abusing co-workers is helping reach an ultimate goal of winning a superbowl. I'm not saying that they can't have fun or joke around and enjoy playing the game. But I'm not sure how this helps the big picture.

I have a hard time believing that the more established organizations over the last decade engage in these types of practices as a means to bring the team together to win a superbowl. Again, maybe i'm off base and all teams do these types of things.

[Phishfan]

^^^ Pranking happens on every NFL team, baseball team, NBA team, every team in the world in every sport. It happens in every social fratenity as well. Men have a nature of bonding by busting on each other.

[Heatles]

Yea, I understand that there are pranking and hazing going on at every level of sports and I also believe that it's a great way for a group to bond. But is it going on to this extent on other teams? Where guys are feeling like they are being mentally abused?

[Phishfan]

I think we need to consider how this broke down as well. Martin took part in these pranks. The prank that caused him to slam his tray and leave was a prank he took part in on someone else just a week prior (getting up and leaving the table). I agree that call was over the top but that was April. Did Martin sit and stew on that call until now? Were there other events between the two? Why has Martin and his people not brought up anything other than these two situations?

I think there is still a lot more to be learned about what was exactly happening.

[Dave Gray]

I think there is still a lot more to be learned about what was exactly happening.

This is undoubtedly true and I think everyone understands that.  A lot of us are saying "if this happened at this time, then I feel this way."

[Brian Fein]

All reports coming out now say that Martin and Richie were close friends on the surface.  Tannehill called Martin "Richie's little brother"

How do you go from "brothers" to enemies overnight?

[Pappy13]

They were right in that Martin is incredibly soft and needed toughening up. They were wrong in sending a psychopath to do the job.

Up vote.

[Downunder Dolphan]

I think we need to consider how this broke down as well. Martin took part in these pranks. The prank that caused him to slam his tray and leave was a prank he took part in on someone else just a week prior (getting up and leaving the table). I agree that call was over the top but that was April. Did Martin sit and stew on that call until now? Were there other events between the two? Why has Martin and his people not brought up anything other than these two situations?

One thing I know about bullying first hand - sometimes other victims are only too willing to join in to save their own asses. It isn't a nice feeling to have people you thought were your friends and who you could rely on turn on you for no other reason. It's even worse when you're backed into a corner with no way out as well as no support.

I think there is still a lot more to be learned about what was exactly happening.

I agree with this - there's a lot of information and possible misinformation being leaked out right now.