Lydon Murtha's Take

[hordman]

Came across this story this morning:

Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

I find some interesting points in the article, like the Vegas trip:

Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

some stuff to ponder from Murtha.

[CF DolFan]

That's a very good take from an inside guy. It won't matter though as to the masses the Dolphins are neanderthals for not taking up for Martin and now Jeff Ireland is the root of the issue. I dislike Ireland as much as the next guy but blaming him for this "imagined" unfair treatment is ridiculous.

I'm going to post the rest of the article because it shows a deeper understanding of the locker room.


MMQB with Peter King

Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story
Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas
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 Lydon Murtha (Cliff Welch/Icon SMI)Lydon Murtha, who played for the Dolphins from 2009 to ’12, is adamant that Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin. (Cliff Welch/Icon SMI)
By Lydon Murtha

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all appearances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.

Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.
Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.

What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.

[hordman]

^^^^CF I gotta agree with you and I've change my tune after having a few days to digest what the media has said and what the Dolphin players have said in the last couple of days

I think there are two sides to this story and the initial reaction from media did what it was suppose to do, to look at Incognito and say "what the fock is wrong with this guy?"

It seems as though the MIA players LOVE Incognito, appreciate his humor, his toughness, etc. Guys, both black and white, said he is not a racist. I don't think Incognito is some great, upstanding gentleman, but these guys are testosterone driven and are maulers, they make their living this way.

I think the OL on many teams are like this, these guys are grinders, do/say shit that you dont repeat in public and prob dont even relay these stories to their wives/gf's

Martin may have some other issues to go along with the harassment and took it outside the team. Guys don't seem to appreciate this.

[EKnight]

It's interesting that you chose to boldface one section, but neglected to highlight,

"Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous."

^^ that is the reason the organization is up shit creek at the moment. The denial and cover up is almost always worse the crime. -EK

[Pappy13]

Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

That's pretty much EXACTLY what I suggested happened earlier. I have no problem with telling Martin, sorry but everything is paid for already, you're out the 15K you put in so if you want to go great, if not sorry but that's up to you. Maybe it's just because I'm a little older and been around the block a few times, but I've seen this type of stuff happen before where I work. This is not unique to the NFL. The dollars are higher only because these guys are making a lot more money, but the concept is exactly the same.

Also this is the first that I've heard that Martin balked at the idea of putting in money for the rookie dinner. If that was the case I can see why Martin was having issues. Like I have said before, some people do not have the mental make up to deal with the strain of being a professional athlete. Sounds like Martin was one of those guys. It's unfortunate. I feel sorry for the guy, but I also feel sorry for Incognito and the Dolphins who don't deserve the criticism they have taken.

[Spider-Dan]

My position on this has been changing over the last few days.

I didn't like when the Dolphins signed Incognito because he had a documented history of being a complete douchebag, and when this story came out, I saw it as confirmation of an already known fact.  Now, I think he is somewhat of a victim in this; he was trying to follow orders, and is just not-very-good at the qualities you (should) want from a leader.  He's tough, he plays hard, maybe even loved by his teammates, but he should not be a leader of your team.  He has no sense of restraint.

Martin may not be cut out for the NFL, but it's going to be tough for the NFL (his employer) to explain why in a way that does not open them up to a major lawsuit.  Like it or not, the NFL is a place of work that falls under labor laws.

Dolphins' management has done nothing but lie and try to sweep this under the rug.  They are the cynical actors in this drama; hang Incognito out to dry while they feign ignorance.  I hope Goodell drops a piano on them.

[CF DolFan]

Just to clarify Sapp said Incognito called him the N word during a game but Sapp wasn't offended at all. Anyway he brought up a good point.

"If we hold the football field to the same business standards as corporate America (because it is a $1 billion dollar industry after all), then no one could count the number of ethics violations being broken every Sunday."

How could they ever enforce violations on the field? How many lawsuits would that be?

[Spider-Dan]

Well, if the NFL wants to put "you should solve any harassment problems with your coworkers by punching them in the face" on paper (as they have with the rulebook that governs the field of play), we can have that discussion.

To say that Sapp wasn't offended by Incognito is a pretty nuanced interpretation:

"He kicked me and called me the N-word," Sapp, who will join the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' ring of honor on Monday night, said on "The Dan Patrick Show." "I looked at him and said, 'You want me to slap you in the mouth, so they throw me out of the game.' I said I got a better plan. I'm going to assault your quarterback and they're going to cut your a--."

"It's the trenches. Some guys teeter right on that edge. But Richie? Nobody's ever had a question that Richie was a dirtbag."

[Pappy13]

He also said that where he comes from being called that is a sign of endearment. Sapp was not offended, he knew that Richie was just trying to get a rise out of him. I suspect that Richie was also trying to get a rise out of Martin to get him back into camp. Smartest thing to say? No. Makes Richie a racist? No.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm not sure how you can look at that anecdote (which ends in "Nobody's ever had a question Richie was a dirtbag") and think that Sapp was OK with it.  That "endearment" stuff is not in the article I cited and if Sapp mentioned it, I'm pretty sure he WASN'T referring to ("dirtbag") Incognito.

[Pappy13]

I'm not sure how you can look at that anecdote (which ends in "Nobody's ever had a question Richie was a dirtbag") and think that Sapp was OK with it.  That "endearment" stuff is not in the article I cited and if Sapp mentioned it, I'm pretty sure he WASN'T referring to ("dirtbag") Incognito.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2013/11/06/warren-sapp-says-richie-incognito-kicked-him-used-a-racial-slur-in-a-game/

Yes Spider there are people that can hear the word and not instantly think "racist". Yes, even Black people.

[Spider-Dan]

Fair enough; apparently he thinks Incognito was just trolling him (but considers him a dirtbag for other reasons).

[CF DolFan]

^^^ You don't think people thought the same of Sapp? I'm a fan of his. My daughter plays soccer against his daughter and yes, I have talked to him.  I like that he is charismatic and outspoken but he was public enemy number one in the NFL at one time.   

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know that Sapp has ever been voted the dirtiest player in the NFL by his peers, no.

[CF DolFan]

I don't even know if they had that award when Sapp played. 


On the flip Richie was awarded the "Good Guy Award" from the Pro Football Writers Association in 2012. Which one defines him? The old one or the current one?