Lincoln

[pondwater]

The George Washington being honest stories has be the greatest irony of all times. 

No, I think that Lincoln being called "Honest Abe" is one of the greatest irony of all times in those regards. Hell, Lincoln probably lied more that Obama, Bush, and Clinton all wrapped into one big burrito.

[CF DolFan]

No, I think that Lincoln being called "Honest Abe" is one of the greatest irony of all times in those regards. Hell, Lincoln probably lied more that Obama, Bush, and Clinton all wrapped into one big burrito.

I think it was you that had brought this up before. It made me go out and read some things in regards to him. It does seem that he was either a racist bigot with disregard to the black man or a liar.  In some ways it seems like he manipulated others to actually start the Civil War because of it. There is definitely a lot of information out there that doesn't paint him as good ol' honest Abe who freed the slaves.


I read today that Martin doesn't want to come back and play for the Dolphins... which I think we all could agree the feeling is mutual. We've all read things that say San Fran would be a good fit for him. We also keep reading that Harbaugh might not be happy in San Fran. How funny would it be if Martin goes to San Fran and Ross pulls of the ultimate hail Mary and signs Harbaugh next year by giving him the control he wants? Basically a Martin and a couple of picks for Harbaugh swap. Stroke would probably kill someone if his head didn't explode first!!!

[Phishfan]

One rule we have is no posting to question a mod's decision to move or delete posts. If you have a complaint, take it to Dave in private. Don't use the forums for mod complaint posts.

[pondwater]

One rule we have is no posting to question a mod's decision to move or delete posts. If you have a complaint, take it to Dave in private. Don't use the forums for mod complaint posts.

Ha, ha, sure thing boss man!

[Phishfan]

That hurt my feelings.

[Tenshot13]

Back on topic, I never did like Lincoln because of his stupid hat.  That's about all I have to say about Lincoln.

Glad there was a thread made to discuss...yep.

[Buddhagirl]

I don't understand this thread. What's being quoted? Did this come from another thread? 

[Landshark]

I don't understand this thread. What's being quoted? Did this come from another thread? 

Yes it did.

[Phishfan]

Yes Buddha. This was split from a different thread. It was a football discussion that branched into George Washington not telling lies and Abe Lincoln not being as stand up as portrayed.

[Buddhagirl]

Ahhhh....then carry on. I was just confused.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think it was you that had brought this up before. It made me go out and read some things in regards to him. It does seem that he was either a racist bigot with disregard to the black man or a liar.  In some ways it seems like he manipulated others to actually start the Civil War because of it. There is definitely a lot of information out there that doesn't paint him as good ol' honest Abe who freed the slaves.

He was a racist and quite honest about it.  Lincoln felt that negros were inferior to whites.  But he felt slavery was wrong.  This is not an inconstant position, particularly at that time.  One can be a racist (against blacks) but feel slavery goes too far. Just as one can be an anti-Semite and be horrified by the Holocaust.  One can't support slavery without being racist, but the converse is not true.

That many history books waterdown or omit that Lincoln was racist doesn't make Lincoln a liar, one could argue that the distorted view of him makes the author a liar, but it has nothing to do with Lincoln's veracity.      

[Spider-Dan]

A white politician in the 1860s was racist?  Say not so!

I doubt even the most progressive of mid-19th-century American politicians would have been pleased to see his daughter bring home a Negro; judge in context.  When you consider that many of Lincoln's contemporaries believed that slavery was the natural order of things, I don't really have a problem if Lincoln was staunchly opposed to integrated schools.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I doubt even the most progressive of mid-19th-century American politicians would have been pleased to see his daughter bring home a Negro; judge in context. 

This is from the Lincoln-Douglas debates.  Douglas was trying to paint Lincoln as more liberal than he was because earlier Lincoln said he felt that laws prohibiting interracial marriage as unnecessary.  Here he explains why they are unnecessary. 

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: It will be very difficult for an audience so large as this to hear distinctly what a speaker says, and consequently it is important that as profound silence be preserved as possible.

While I was at the hotel to—day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness—and that is the case of Judge Douglas’s old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject), that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this: that I do not understand that there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature—not in the Congress of the United States—and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject.

[Landshark]

He was a racist and quite honest about it.  Lincoln felt that negros were inferior to whites.  But he felt slavery was wrong.  This is not an inconstant position, particularly at that time.  One can be a racist (against blacks) but feel slavery goes too far. Just as one can be an anti-Semite and be horrified by the Holocaust.  One can't support slavery without being racist, but the converse is not true.

That many history books waterdown or omit that Lincoln was racist doesn't make Lincoln a liar, one could argue that the distorted view of him makes the author a liar, but it has nothing to do with Lincoln's veracity.      

Despite him feeling that blacks were inferior to whites, he did what he could at the time to give blacks a chance to eventually become equal to whites.  He put a lot of government money into "land grants".  Most historically black colleges are land grant schools.