Robert Mathis Suspended

[Brian Fein]

^^ I never said innocent.  I don't think he's saying he's innocent.  I never heard him say "I didn't do it..."  It was pretty clear, he said "yeah I took it, but here's why"

You're both being ridiculous.  You believe what you want, but you're probably wrong.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^ I never said innocent.  I don't think he's saying he's innocent.  I never heard him say "I didn't do it..."  It was pretty clear, he said "yeah I took it, but here's why"

You're both being ridiculous.  You believe what you want, but you're probably wrong.

Yeah... his story is real believable.  

According to his agent....the first time they had kids his wife took the drug to produce eggs, but she couldn't take it any more for medical reason so he took it instead.  

If the wife has infertility issues of producing eggs, the husband taking the drug to produce more sperm is going to fix the problem.  

Or maybe the 11 year old player was losing his edge in the game and decided to extend his career with drugs and when he got caught rather than admit what he did he decided to tell a story of woe about want to give his dying mother another grandchild. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have question to ask the Mathis defenders....

How many 33 year olds go from a season average from a 10 year average of less  than 10 sacks per game to 19.5 sacks and the lead leader in sacks for the first time?

Pretty amazing that a DE could show such improvement at that age, don't you think? 

At 33 years old be the first time he gets elected to the all-pro team.  First time he wins the AFC Defensive Player of the Year.  Of the four times he won AFC Defensive Player of the Month two of them is when he is 33. 

Clearly playing DE in the NFL like golf or chess a game where you get better with age and don't slow down. 

[EKnight]

I want to just throw this in for all you smart mark know it alls- most of you clearly have NO idea what clomid is or how it's used! It's not- in any way, shape, or form, a performance enhancer. Athletes take it AFTER running a cycle of steroids to suppress gyno and other sides. It doesn't enhance performance at all. Educate yourselves. Next point- while it is not (yet) FDA approved for male fertility, many GP's prescribe it as such frequently and have for years.

Did Mathis screw up by taking something he should not have? Absolutely. Was it a PED or a mistake by his doctor? No. -EK

[MikeO]

I want to just throw this in for all you smart mark know it alls- most of you clearly have NO idea what clomid is or how it's used! It's not- in any way, shape, or form, a performance enhancer. Athletes take it AFTER running a cycle of steroids to suppress gyno and other sides. It doesn't enhance performance at all. Educate yourselves. Next point- while it is not (yet) FDA approved for male fertility, many GP's prescribe it as such frequently and have for years.

Did Mathis screw up by taking something he should not have? Absolutely. Was it a PED or a mistake by his doctor? No. -EK

NFL views his failure as a failed PED test. They claim it boosts testosterone. I will go with them and their medical experts over someone like you who trolls an internet message board and is clearly uneducated on a lot of subjects!

[EKnight]

That's why you're a moron.  Hoodie posted exactly what it does. If you don't believe me, call your physician. And they don't claim that it boosts test anyway. I know sometimes reading comprehension is hard for you, but stay with me. NFL banned substance list: http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/Banned%20Substance%20List.pdf

Clomid is listed as an "Anti-estrogenic Agent" That means it suppresses estrogen (as in post-cycle). It's not listed under the Hormones or Anabolic Agents categories. 

You're in over your head if you want to argue this one with me. I've been around pro bodybuilders and powerlifters for the better part of 20 years who use this stuff. I know what I'm talking about. -EK

[Phishfan]

In order to get suspended you need to fail three tests.  One to get into stage one, a second to get to stage 2, and then a third to get suspended.  

Pretty sure this isn't correct.

[pondwater]

NFL views his failure as a failed PED test. They claim it boosts testosterone. I will go with them and their medical experts over someone like you who trolls an internet message board and is clearly uneducated on a lot of subjects!

EK is right, clomid/nolvadex is run as part of PCT(post cycle therpy) to inhibit arimization of estrogen. When you run gear, you body tries to establish homeostasis and compensates for an overabundance  of androgens by converting them to estrogen. Hence, a SERM like clomid is taken to suppress the excess estrogen, which has negative effects for bodybuilding. You don't take just clomid. And I'm sure he would have popped hot for anabolics if he was actually taking one. Most types of gear are detectable much longer than SERMS are.

[MikeO]

EK is right, clomid/nolvadex is run as part of PCT(post cycle therpy) to inhibit arimization of estrogen. When you run gear, you body tries to establish homeostasis and compensates for an overabundance  of androgens by converting them to estrogen. Hence, a SERM like clomid is taken to suppress the excess estrogen, which has negative effects for bodybuilding. You don't take just clomid. And I'm sure he would have popped hot for anabolics if he was actually taking one. Most types of gear are detectable much longer than SERMS are.

So you are both claiming the NFL is wrong?! Once again I will go with their medical experts over you two. Sorry

[MikeO]

That's why you're a moron. 

HA HA HA! sure ok

You're in over your head if you want to argue this one with me. I've been around pro bodybuilders and powerlifters for the better part of 20 years who use this stuff. I know what I'm talking about. -EK

Only person in over their head is you. Once again I will go with the NFL medical experts over an internet message board troll who has no credibility

[EKnight]

Didn't I tell you reading comprehension would be a problem? I linked you the NFL list and, once again, Clomid is NOT a PED- it's clearly labeled an anti-estrogen. What part of that in black and white is getting past you? The NFL "doctors" aren't claiming it's a test elevator. You are, but anything steroid or gym related is apparently far out of your wheelhouse.

So, I'll ask again- how is it a test booster when the NFL themselves labels it as something else? Love to hear how you dodge or manipulate this one. Again- over your head.

EK is right, clomid/nolvadex is run as part of PCT(post cycle therpy) to inhibit arimization of estrogen. When you run gear, you body tries to establish homeostasis and compensates for an overabundance  of androgens by converting them to estrogen. Hence, a SERM like clomid is taken to suppress the excess estrogen, which has negative effects for bodybuilding. You don't take just clomid. And I'm sure he would have popped hot for anabolics if he was actually taking one. Most types of gear are detectable much longer than SERMS are.

^^100% this.

What do you think, MikeO, that Pondwater and I arbitrarily came up with the exact same use for Clomid and it just happened to coincide with what the NFL lists the drug as being used for, but we're all wrong- he, I, and the NFL too? And you're right? Really? And where exactly did the NFL doctors say it boosts test? The official statement regarding the suspension reads that the drug is a performance enhancer and that it's not approve by the FDA for what Mathis claimed he used it for. NOTHING about increasing test. You just make shit up as you go as usual, and you're getting called out on it. The only reason it's even considered a PED is because it allows a user to take a cycle of steroids and then get test levels back within normal range, not because it elevates them outside of normal range or because it directly helps performance in any way. -EK

[MikeO]

^^^From the NFL's statement...the first sentence says it all

"The drug for which Mr. Mathis tested positive is not approved by the FDA for fertility in males and is a performance-enhancing drug that has been prohibited for years. Importantly, Mr. Mathis did not consult with the policy's Independent Administrator, a physician jointly approved by the NFL and NFL Players Association. Nor did he consult with his team doctor, the team's training staff, the NFLPA, the league office or the hotline established under the policy to give confidential information to players. Each of these sources would have warned against using this substance."

The NFL says its a PED and you say it isn't. Once again, siding with them over someone like you!

[EKnight]

Knew you'd change your story!

They claim it boosts testosterone.

Now, where in that NFL statement does it say it elevates test levels? That's right- it doesn't. You just keep making shit up. Stop avoiding the point- the NFL lists it as an estrogen blocker. Why don't you answer that point? Stop ignoring the facts that don't agree with your incorrect opinion. I just explained to you how it is considered a performance enhancer.

The only reason it's even considered a PED is because it allows a user to take a cycle of steroids and then get test levels back within normal range, not because it elevates them outside of normal range or because it directly helps performance in any way. -EK

[MikeO]

Knew you'd change your story! Where in that statement does it say it elevates test levels? That's right- it doesn't. You just keep making shit up. Stop avoiding the point- the NFL lists it as an estrogen blocker. Why don't you answer that point? Stop ignoring the facts that don't agree with your incorrect opinion. I just explained to you how it is considered a performance enhancer. -EK

You are talking in circles now and arguing for the sake of arguing. I never changed my story go back and read the thread its what I have said all day. It's a PED. It's a performance enhancer that has been prohibited for years as the league has clearly stated. Pretty cut and dry to me.

As a doctor on the NFLN said the other night, by taking this drug your testosterone levels increases....that is a PED! How much more simple is it than that?!  If taking this drug lowers your estrogen than obviously your testosterone levels will be higher. That's what a PED is, artificially enhancing your testosterone levels! Giving yourself a boost!  In the world of sports that's cheating!

I'm no doctor don't pretend to be. You can cut and paste from Wikipedia and other sites and try to pass it off as your own knowledge but the bottom line is Mathis tried to cheat its plain and simple. You want to spin this into something its not fine, but he failed a PED test by taking a PED. Case closed!

[pondwater]

You are talking in circles now and arguing for the sake of arguing. I never changed my story go back and read the thread its what I have said all day. It's a PED. It's a performance enhancer that has been prohibited for years as the league has clearly stated. Pretty cut and dry to me.

As a doctor on the NFLN said the other night, by taking this drug your testosterone levels increases....that is a PED! How much more simple is it than that?!  If taking this drug lowers your estrogen than obviously your testosterone levels will be higher. That's what a PED is, artificially enhancing your testosterone levels! Giving yourself a boost!  In the world of sports that's cheating!

I'm no doctor don't pretend to be. You can cut and paste from Wikipedia and other sites and try to pass it off as your own knowledge but the bottom line is Mathis tried to cheat its plain and simple. You want to spin this into something its not fine, but he failed a PED test by taking a PED. Case closed!

I don't think you are understanding the mechanism in which this works. A SERM inhibits estrogen. Therefore it will raise testosterone. However, it only raises testosterone after it is already converted to estradiol through aromatization in adipose tissue, certain brain tissue, and other specific tissues via negative feedback loop. If you don't take steroids to first raise androgens, clomid isn't going to raise your test levels above baseline. So, yes the doctor you are quoting is technically right, in that it will raise test levels. But, that only applies if your levels are already low due to testosterone to estradiol conversion. Your test levels would already have to be much higher than baseline for aromatization to happen. And you would have to be on gear or have a medical issue for your test levels to rise that much over baseline.