Robert Mathis Suspended

[pondwater]

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that the reason chlomid is on the banned substance list is because it helps mask other PED's, not because it's an actually PED.  Is that right???  Now I don't know whether Mathis is telling the truth, I would lean towards the probabilty that he is telling the truth.  However, I can't argue with the NFL's penalty due to his prior infractions, if this was a first time issue I doubt the penalty would have been so severe.

No, SERMs don't hide PEDs. Actually, most orals are detectable from 4-8 weeks with most injectables from 1-18 months. Clomid detection time is ususlly less than a month. So in all reality, if someone was on any effective PEDs then they would probably test positive for the actual steroids long after clomid has left their system.

[pondwater]

While I don't normally post here much of late, I still stalk, and I've just really gotta post since this is actually in my realm in a couple of ways, both as a physician (seriously...Internal Medicine at UAB) and a gym *rat*, or as much as I can be nowadays.

Sorry, Mike, but the others are right about Clomifene.  It is indeed used for infertility issues, and I have seen it used in males.  While it is true that it can and is used by bodybuilders to inhibit the excess estogen production in the setting of a heightened androgenic state, like pondwater stated, if someone was using it for those purposes, you would almost certainly and invariably see an increased testosterone level, much above baseline.  It doesn't sound like that was the case with Mathis, though I agree, he made a mistake by not looking into matters further himself since regardless of whether Clomid would "boost" his testosterone or not (not), it was still on the NFL's banned list.

And don't hang your hat too much on medications used for indications that aren't FDA approved....you'd probably be very shocked how often that indeed is the case in the field of medicine.

Like EK said, ephedrine is on the PED list and I would hardly call that performance enhancing. Hell, I don't even know why it's banned.

[Pappy13]

I heard the agent for Mathis come on the Mike and Mike show yesterday and he said that the NFL has granted an exception for other players to take this drug for the exact purpose that Mathis said he took it and that had Mathis' agent gone to the NFL and asked for a TUE (Theraputic Use Exception) prior to him taking it, that they most likely would have granted it and he could have used it.

Also Mathis was not appealing the fine, only the suspension. He said that he would be more then willing to pay the fine in the amount of what a 4 game suspension will cost him if he would just be allowed to play. Sounds to me like Mathis just made a mistake, not that he was trying to cheat. Now it could be that he was trying to cheat and is using all of this as an excuse, but based on what his agent said, he's not too bright then because if he had told his story to the NFL prior to using the drug, and asked for an exception everything would have been fine.

[EKnight]

While I don't normally post here much of late, I still stalk, and I've just really gotta post since this is actually in my realm in a couple of ways, both as a physician (seriously...Internal Medicine at UAB) and a gym *rat*, or as much as I can be nowadays.

Sorry, Mike, but the others are right about Clomifene.  It is indeed used for infertility issues, and I have seen it used in males.  While it is true that it can and is used by bodybuilders to inhibit the excess estogen production in the setting of a heightened androgenic state, like pondwater stated, if someone was using it for those purposes, you would almost certainly and invariably see an increased testosterone level, much above baseline.  It doesn't sound like that was the case with Mathis, though I agree, he made a mistake by not looking into matters further himself since regardless of whether Clomid would "boost" his testosterone or not (not), it was still on the NFL's banned list.

And don't hang your hat too much on medications used for indications that aren't FDA approved....you'd probably be very shocked how often that indeed is the case in the field of medicine.

^^ this.

Like EK said, ephedrine is on the PED list and I would hardly call that performance enhancing. Hell, I don't even know why it's banned.

And this.

Be careful, though, Pondwater. You can't say I'm correct more than once in the same thread or Mike's head might explode. -EK

[pondwater]

Now it could be that he was trying to cheat and is using all of this as an excuse, but based on what his agent said, he's not too bright then because if he had told his story to the NFL prior to using the drug, and asked for an exception everything would have been fine.

The 1 thing that makes me think that this isn't about him cheating is that no other compounds were found in his system. If he was trying to cheat by just using clomid, he's got to be the stupidest player in the NFL. As has been stated numerous times. Clomid alone will not enhance your performance, any positive effects would be negligible and inconsequential.

[pondwater]

^^ this.

And this.

Be careful, though, Pondwater. You can't say I'm correct more than once in the same thread or Mike's head might explode. -EK

Well to be honest, I could care less if they all juice up. It would amp up the game and make it better in my opinion. As far as player safety goes. Most of the scare tactics about steroids and PEDs are just government propaganda. Doing these things to your body is a slight risk. So is everything you do in life.

[RichThrawn]

Well to be honest, I could care less if they all juice up. It would amp up the game and make it better in my opinion. As far as player safety goes. Most of the scare tactics about steroids and PEDs are just government propaganda. Doing these things to your body is a slight risk. So is everything you do in life.

Try telling that to Chris Benoit's family

[EKnight]

It's my understanding that brain damage, not "roid rage" is what led to that tragedy. ESPN had a story on it: http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=3005520&src=desktop -EK

[pondwater]

Try telling that to Chris Benoit's family

Not sure why their opinion about steroids would matter much. They may have a emotional attachment that may affect their judgement about the topic. It would be about the same as telling the sandy hook parents that we have a 2nd amendment right to firearms. Most people who lose family members have judgement clouded by emotion. They would rather blame anything other than their loved one or the person really responsible.

[CF DolFan]

Not sure why their opinion about steroids would matter much. They may have a emotional attachment that may affect their judgement about the topic. It would be about the same as telling the sandy hook parents that we have a 2nd amendment right to firearms. Most people who lose family members have judgement clouded by emotion. They would rather blame anything other than their loved one or the person really responsible.

I think he's referring to to the fact he murdered his family before killing himself. They aren't here to blame anyone.