Redskins lose trademarks

[MikeO]

I agree with your statement, Dave.

My question is whether or not it is truly a "racial slur"... 

In the United States, "redskin" is regarded as a racial epithet by some, neutral by some people, and by many Native American tribes,as non offensive. Several predominately Native American schools use the name for their athletic teams, most notably the 98% Native American enrollment of the Red Mesa High School Redskins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

I personally don't care either way, but to me it just seems like some people are making it a bigger deal than it is...?  Maybe I'm just being obtuse.

No your not I agree with you. IF the Oneida Indian Nation wins this fight over the Redskins name and force the league and Snyder to change it, what's next? Make the NHL change the Blackhawks mascot? Make MLB change the Indians mascot and name? Target the Atlanta Braves? Make the NFL have the Chiefs switch names? Start going after colleges with native american names and mascots? It does start a slippery slope that will never end.  And I know some of you will say...."IT's DIFFERENT, IT's DIFFERENT." And maybe it is on some small level, but the overall principal isn't different. Which is don't use native american terms and such as team names and logos, even if you do have "approval from a specific tribe." And once the NFL and Redskins cave.....the rest will follow in short order. Because if the mighty and powerful NFL was forced to change then the less powerful and less mighty teams/schools/leagues have no chance of winning that fight.

I know people have strong feelings about this issue on both sides and I'm not looking to change anyone's mind. But to me the people who are trying to force this change were powerful and rich 10 and 20 years ago, why didn't they make a fuss then and push for this then? The main force behind this push (The Oneida Indian Nation) have raised a lot of money and gotten a lot of publicity for this fight. As much as they want to win they also want to keep this battle going on as it brings them attention and money. If Dan Snyder and the NFL caves tomorrow...this isn't going away. They will just pick their next target!

I know I ain't changing some of your minds and I am not trying too. And some of you can think I "don't get it" or I am wrong on this, and that's fine. But from day one this has been all about the $$$$$$! The Oneida Indian Nation has made boatloads of money off this issue and they want to win and want to continue it as long as possible.

[CF DolFan]

I find it funny that a Republican radio host was suspended indefinitely off of his own show for saying n*****. The discussion was along the racists lines of the term Redskins. He doesn't get into trouble for saying Cracker, Honkey, Bible thumping Redneck, or even the newly racist term Redskins but the terms n***** and Spic gets him yanked. Since pretty much everyone outside of Hip-Hop agrees "n*****" and "Spic" is a racist comment  how come other so-called racists names aren't offensive to say?

Should we change Redskin to now be R******* on here as well now? LOL

[Phishfan]

And I know some of you will say...."IT's DIFFERENT, IT's DIFFERENT." And maybe it is on some small level, but the overall principal isn't different.

It is no small difference and the principal is not close to the same. Using a specific tribe name such as Seminole or Illini have been approved by the tribes (and Oneida has nothing to do with them so I can't see how they could even protest) and using terms such has Braves & Chiefs not been considered offensive. Redskin is deemed an offensive term by some. It has nothing to do with using Native American mascots in general. It has to do with the naming. I dare say that is the redskins changed their names to Braves (which was a previous name for the team) and even kept their current logo this issue would be completely dropped.

[Phishfan]

He doesn't get into trouble for saying Cracker, Honkey, Bible thumping Redneck,

Here is the thing CF and I think you can recognize this. You Sanford boys love to be considered crackers and rednecks and the like. It doesn't offend you one bit. As JJ Grey (Florida native) says in one of his songs, "Call me dirtfloorcracker but them words just fill me with pride".

It is hard to complain about your badge of honor not being considered offensive.

[MikeO]

I dare say that is the redskins changed their names to Braves (which was a previous name for the team) and even kept their current logo this issue would be completely dropped.

I highly doubt that.

[Phishfan]

Then please explain why there is no uproar about the Atlanta Braves then? Please don't forget that the Braves organization has already been targeted for a former logo as well as their mascot but nothing was mentioned about the name as you explain why the name is of issue. You sound like the gun conspiracists, "they want regulation on something so therefore they plan to take everything away."

[MikeO]

Then please explain why there is no uproar about the Atlanta Braves then? Please don't forget that the Braves organization has already been targeted for a former logo as well as their mascot but nothing was mentioned about the name as you explain why the name is of issue. You sound like the gun conspiracists, "they want regulation on something so therefore they plan to take everything away."

Nothing was mentioned about the Redskins name either for many years.  Times change and what happened in the past with the Braves is obviously pointless. The NFL is bigger and more powerful and draws more headlines than MLB. Once they are done with the NFL/Redskins issues I am sure this group will move on down the line and hit teams like the Braves and others.

Time will tell which one of us is right and wrong on this issue.

[Dave Gray]

^ I'm not really trying to say that it's wrong.

It's just an inevitable change that's hard to defend.  I don't think it's meant to be insensitive and I'm sure that there are people getting rich off of this and faking outrage.  But it is what it is.  The Redskin's refusal to do anything about it just further highlights the issue.  It's going to change.  They should just do it and be on the right side of history.  Their fighting it at every step starts to appear insensitive, when I don't think it was the intention.

And it's hard to compare Braves with Redskins.  One is a name, the other is a slur.  It's really that simple and so they really aren't comparable.

[Spider-Dan]

Braves is no different than Warriors or Cavaliers.

[MikeO]

^ I'm not really trying to say that it's wrong.

It's just an inevitable change that's hard to defend.  I don't think it's meant to be insensitive and I'm sure that there are people getting rich off of this and faking outrage.  But it is what it is.  The Redskin's refusal to do anything about it just further highlights the issue.  It's going to change.  They should just do it and be on the right side of history.  Their fighting it at every step starts to appear insensitive, when I don't think it was the intention.

And it's hard to compare Braves with Redskins.  One is a name, the other is a slur.  It's really that simple and so they really aren't comparable.

The fact the NFL hasn't forced this change yet and this has been going on what 2 years now or so....I'm not so sure change is coming anytime soon or ever. We will see.

Because lets be honest if the NFL wanted Snyder and the organization to change the name of that team, it would be done in 5 minutes. Dan Snyder might own the team but he is a pawn in the big picture of the NFL! The league hasn't demanded that yet in the last 2 or so years, which tells you they stand by Snyder.

[masterfins]

I think the Indians that are protesting this, and trying to get Snyder to change the team name are making a big mistake.  The Washington Redskins are not trying to use the term redskins in a disparaging manner, actually quite the opposite.  I mean why would you want your own players and fans to be called by a racial slur??  The answer is you wouldn't, you actually want the opposite.  The Washington Redskins use of the term redskins actually redefines the meaning of the word in a positive way (except to fans of the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles).  The Indians should be welcoming this redefinition of the term redskins.  If they actually succeed someday then they will actual succeed in getting some people (who never gave a thought about its origin) to start using the term as a slur because they are unhappy with the name change.

[Brian Fein]

I still disagree with forcing the Washington Bullets to change their name.  For what its worth...

[Dave Gray]

It's not "forcing" so much as just encouraging them to make smart business decisions.  These aren't like mom and pop stores.  They are community driven businesses tied to charity, endorsements, public financing. 

Right or wrong, once a portion of the public turns against you, you risk losing free agents, city financing deals, endorsements of the team, etc. etc. because people don't want to be near negative press.  Eventually it will start affecting your bottom line.  It's just the way capitalism works.

And it's just hard to defend the position.  The Redskins don't mean any ill-will, but that doesn't really matter.

[Phishfan]

I still disagree with forcing the Washington Bullets to change their name.  For what its worth...

I am pretty sure the owner of the team made the decision himself without real pressure being applied.

[MikeO]

And it's just hard to defend the position.  The Redskins don't mean any ill-will, but that doesn't really matter.

Not that hard to defend the position. The NFL and Dan Snyder have been doing it for a few years now. What has the Oneida Indian nation actually won in all of these years? They got some bad PR on Dan Snyder....don't think he really cares and its not like his public image was great before anyway. Not like free agents aren't going to play for the Redskins over this. Not like Snyder and the NFL aren't getting money from sponsors and advertisers. Not like Snyder is losing season ticket holders over this.

One day Snyder or the NFL might get sick of this and just change the name just because they are tired of this fight...but that will be on their terms. Not because they were forced too. Because obviously its been an easy fight for them. Aside from the reporters hounding them with the same questions and some bad PR for Snyder that no football fans care about in reality...it's been an easy position to defend for the NFL and Snyder.