Baltimore Riots

[Spider-Dan]

No one is rioting over a random white citizen murdering a random black guy and escaping punishment.  And to be honest, I can't remember a riot (or even a protest) ever happening for that reason; the closest analog would be Zimmerman, and the reason people originally got upset about that was because he wasn't even arrested after admitting to killing an unarmed teenager.

This is a pretty good example of the issue, though: if any black person killed any white person anywhere ever and got away with it, that is cited as an equivalent to state-sanctioned lethal violence against unarmed minorities by law enforcement officers.

Those two things are not remotely comparable and it's ridiculous to present them as such.

[pondwater]

[Spider-Dan]

1) As you frequently like to point out in these kinds of threads, the black population is not half the size of the white population in America.
2) The problem is not "blacks being killed by police;" most of those deaths go by without a peep from anyone.  The problem is unarmed blacks being killed by police, precisely because it's much more difficult for an armed officer to claim a life-threatening danger from an unarmed man.

Citing total number of deaths by police in these police brutality discussions is like citing total number of black-on-black killings in the Zimmerman discussions:

- the total number of black-on-black killings tells you nothing about how many of those killers were arrested, charged, and/or convicted (Zimmerman originally wasn't even arrested, much less charged)
- the total number of people killed by police (sorted by race) tells you nothing about how many of those people were unarmed

The bolded parts are the crux of the issue.

[pondwater]

1) As you frequently like to point out in these kinds of threads, the black population is not half the size of the white population in America.

As I also like to point out, blacks also commit more crime as a group. Not only towards other races, but also towards themselves. Not to mention, that in most of these media hyped stories, the "poor innocent black victim" is a criminal thug with a rap sheet as long as your arm.

2) The problem is not "blacks being killed by police;" most of those deaths go by without a peep from anyone.  The problem is unarmed blacks being killed by police, precisely because it's much more difficult for an armed officer to claim a life-threatening danger from an unarmed man.

Citing total number of deaths by police in these police brutality discussions is like citing total number of black-on-black killings in the Zimmerman discussions:

- the total number of black-on-black killings tells you nothing about how many of those killers were arrested, charged, and/or convicted (Zimmerman originally wasn't even arrested, much less charged)
- the total number of people killed by police (sorted by race) tells you nothing about how many of those people were unarmed

The bolded parts are the crux of the issue.

I would counter that the majority of the time, a police officer has no way of knowing who is armed or unarmed. Furthermore, being unarmed as you say, is not really unarmed. Arms, legs, feet, fists, etc are weapons. One good punch or kick and the criminal could have the officers weapon. Just the other day I was talking to my neighbor (a black cop) about this Baltimore thing, and he told me  that if given a choice, he would rather deal with white people on a daily basis. He said that for the most part white people give him less issues overall problems.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Why wasn't there a riot when Gilbert Collar was murdered by a black cop? Hell, why wasn't there even news coverage of it? 

[SCFinfan]

Reading this thread, and watching what happened in Baltimore, I'm honestly very happy to live in Charleston, South Carolina. What happened in North Charleston could've caused an eruption. It didn't. So far, with the wave of nationally-reported police shootings, I think we're the only place who's had a highest-level of coverage type case that hasn't erupted into some violence (tell me if I'm wrong). Ferguson had the post-NO BILL riots, 2 NYPD officers were gunned down for possible revenge, this thing in Baltimore. I suppose there hasn't been any violence in Cleveland either, after Tamir Rice, but it feels (to me) that the Tamir Rice situation just hasn't received the coverage that Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, and Freddy Grey have. I could be wrong.

Anyway, I think it's because Slager was immediately arrested, and because of our system. Only in rare situations is a Solicitor's (assistant DA) office here involved on the front end of an investigation. Normally, the entire investigation - cover to cover - is done by the police, and then the file lands in an ASOL (ass't DA) desk. This means there is almost never an indictment prior to an arrest. Thus, once the video was seen (and, blessedly, SLED [SC's in-state FBI, if you will] reported they had questions about Slager's story from the get-go) we arrested the officer, and he's been in the Leeds Avenue jail here in Charleston county since. He won't bond out for at least 2 - 3 years, if ever, and because we don't have "degrees" of murder here (we do have manslaughter, etc, but not murder 1, murder 2, murder 3) he had to be charged with the crime that, logically, it appears he committed, and that is Murder.

I was also impressed with Walter Scott's family, vs. that of Michael Brown or (even, to an extent) Trayvon Martin. They indicated they didn't want ppl like Al Sharpton to come (even though he did, and was generally ignored) and maintained what may be called a very holy dignity and forgiveness of Ofc. Slager.

The whole thing worked out as best as, I feel, anyone could've hoped for here. No riots, no streets/highways being blocked, no officers being attacked or shot, no insanity, nothing.

It feels like SC's ahead of the curve, but if you live here, you already knew that.

[Rich]

2) The problem is not "blacks being killed by police;" most of those deaths go by without a peep from anyone.  The problem is unarmed blacks being killed by police, precisely because it's much more difficult for an armed officer to claim a life-threatening danger from an unarmed man.

The problem is not black anything. This is not a race issue. This is a law enforcement issue. The problem is the police becoming more militarized and more frequently violating the 4th Amendment of the Constitution without repurcussion. They are above the law. It just so happens that the frequency of issues mentioned in the media recently involve white cops shooting unarmed blacks.

Police don't need to be held accountable for their relations with the black community. Police need to be held accountable for their relations with the community at large. They treat everyone like shit, whether you're a young black man with cornrolls or a young white man with a shaved head and tattoos or a hispanic man dressed in a suit and tie or a pregnant asian woman.

They do not care about the citizenry. They care about protecting their "brothers" and exercising their authority over the citizenry.

[Phishfan]

It feels like SC's ahead of the curve, but if you live here, you already knew that.

This may be the first time I've heard that. I like SC and have visited many times but they really need to reconsider that flag flying over the state house.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

but they really need to reconsider that flag flying over the state house.

where is the like button? 

[Rich]

Interesting article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety.

[Spider-Dan]

As I also like to point out, blacks also commit more crime as a group.

Wrong again.  They are convicted of more crime, which is not the same thing.  For example, statistics consistently show that whites and blacks use illegal drugs at ~the same rates, yet blacks have many more convictions.

When the justice system itself is unequal, you can't exactly point at the skewed results as evidence.

I would counter that the majority of the time, a police officer has no way of knowing who is armed or unarmed.

In nearly all of these recent high-profile cases, either the officer clearly acknowledges that the deceased was known to be unarmed, or they make an extremely flimsy case to claim that they were armed (in some cases, planting a weapon).

Furthermore, look at the case of Tamir Rice.  The shooting officer claims that he thought 12-year-old Rice was in his 20s and walking around with a weapon; this was used as justification for shooting Rice less than 2 seconds after arriving on the scene.  But white people (particularly "patriots") walk around with rifles in plain view all the time.  So if Tamir Rice was really believed to be an armed adult, why didn't they check to see whether he was exercising his constitutionally-guaranteed Second Amendment rights?

Why is it that we have white people bringing rifles into Chipotle and Target, and yet when a black person has a pellet rifle in Wal-Mart having committed no crime, he is gunned down?  Where were John Crawford's Second Amendment rights?

Look at the incident last year with Cliven Bundy and a cadre of armed white people arriving at his ranch to threaten law enforcement.  Now imagine the New Black Panthers showing up WITH GUNS at a foreclosed business to keep the local sheriff away.  You mean to tell me that said situation would be resolved by law enforcement standing down?!

The double standard is obscene.

[Rich]

Now imagine the New Black Panthers showing up WITH GUNS at a foreclosed business to keep the local sheriff away.  You mean to tell me that said situation would be resolved by law enforcement standing down?!

The double standard is obscene.

The New Black Panthers show up at a polling place with billy clubs and threaten people to vote for one candidate and scare white people off from entering the polling place at all and the DOJ does nothing about it.

You are right. The double standard is obscene.

[Spider-Dan]

Interesting article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

The claim that Freddie Gray severed his own spinal column and crushed his own larynx gets points for originality, if nothing else.

The New Black Panthers show up at a polling place with billy clubs and threaten people to vote for one candidate and scare white people off from entering the polling place at all and the DOJ does nothing about it.

So let's talk about double standards.

Two members of the New Black Panthers were allegedly intimidating people at a polling place.  One of them (Shabazz) carried a billy club.  He was sent away by police (i.e. law enforcement).  The other one (Jackson) was allowed to stay because he was a certified poll watcher.  The issue has been fully and promptly resolved by law enforcement, yet for some reason, you think the DOJ needs to get involved and do more.  (edit: For the record, the DOJ did open a case, but later dismissed it.)

In contrast, at the Bundy Ranch, a bunch of armed civilians show up to stop the BLM from executing a court judgment on Cliven Bundy.  In response, law enforcement... stands down and walks away.  No law enforcement organization has announced any sort of plan to take action against these armed citizens that were actively obstructing justice (and remember, these "patriots" were openly stating that their express purpose was to prevent law enforcement from executing said judgment).

If this is your best shot at a comparable situation, you are proving my point for me.  When the NBP shows up in large numbers with guns at a polling place while clearly stating, "We are here to keep white people from voting," and the response from law enforcement is, "We'd better stand down or someone might get hurt," then we can have a discussion.

[pondwater]

As I also like to point out, blacks also commit more crime as a group. 

Wrong again.  They are convicted of more crime, which is not the same thing. 

If you would like to argue semantics then I will revise my statement just for you. "As I also like to point out, blacks as a group represent a much higher percentage of convicted criminals than other groups."

For example, statistics consistently show that whites and blacks use illegal drugs at ~the same rates, yet blacks have many more convictions.

Sure, it's a big conspiracy against black people. Everyone's out to get you. Now go check under your bed for the boogeyman.

The double standard is obscene.

I'm sure you'll call me a racist but I don't give a shit. In my opinion as a group. Blacks have a chip on their shoulder and seem to think that they are owed something for slavery and racism that exists in the world. As a group they are ruder than others, more violent than others, and think that they are OWED respect. As far as I'm concerned, respect is earned and even if you earn it you may not get it. Black people can't even treat each other good and they want to complain about how everyone else treats them. You're correct Spider, the double standard is obscene, but it's actually reverse of what you think

[Spider-Dan]

It is not "semantics" to point out that our justice system is biased when two groups who commit a crime at the same rate have vastly different arrest and conviction numbers.  In fact, it is the central argument as to the inequity of the justice system.