Baltimore Riots

[pondwater]

It is not "semantics" to point out that our justice system is biased when two groups who commit a crime at the same rate have vastly different arrest and conviction numbers.  In fact, it is the central argument as to the inequity of the justice system.

We're not talking about our justice system. That is a totally different subject. We're debating on whether blacks are more dangerous as a group compared to other groups. So Spider, what ethnic group has the highest percentage of convicted criminals?

Better yet, the term "convicted criminal" may not be the best choice. As it doesn't refer to someone being dangerous. How does the rate of black convicted murderers compare to the rate of white convicted murderers when compared to the over all population percentage between blacks and whites?

[Spider-Dan]

A discussion about conviction statistics is literally inseparable from the justice system, as the justice system is what issues said convictions.

[SCFinfan]

This may be the first time I've heard that. I like SC and have visited many times but they really need to reconsider that flag flying over the state house.

What, do you mean the crescent and palmetto? That's the only flag flying over the statehouse since 2000.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate4.html

where is the like button? 

It's probably shoved up your ass, where your head is.

[pondwater]

A discussion about conviction statistics is literally inseparable from the justice system, as the justice system is what issues said convictions.

Didn't think you would answer the questions. So is it your position that black people don't commit more crime and/or murders when their total percentage of populations is taken into account?

[Cathal]

What, do you mean the crescent and palmetto? That's the only flag flying over the statehouse since 2000.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate4.html

It's probably shoved up your ass, where your head is.

Per the article, they still have a Confederate flag in front of the capitol building? I guess they have made some progress after all of these years.

[Rich]

What, do you mean the crescent and palmetto? That's the only flag flying over the statehouse since 2000.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate4.html

It's probably shoved up your ass, where your head is.

Nice.

[SCFinfan]

Per the article, they still have a Confederate flag in front of the capitol building? I guess they have made some progress after all of these years.

Indeed. A lot more than anyone would expect. This is one of the best states in the union, bar none.

[MikeO]

It is not "semantics" to point out that our justice system is biased when two groups who commit a crime at the same rate have vastly different arrest and conviction numbers.  In fact, it is the central argument as to the inequity of the justice system.

Agree Spider. I am learning that a lot of people don't know what the word "semantics" means. It seems to be their fall back excuse and they throw it around when they are proven wrong

[Fau Teixeira]

It feels like SC's ahead of the curve, but if you live here, you already knew that.

i've been through south carolina a few times .. it's a pretty state .. but quite frankly it smells putrid .. 4 different dumps along the highway through SC is 3 too many .. P U

when my wife and I smell something horribly bad .. we instantly say it smells like south carolina

[Rich]

i've been through south carolina a few times .. it's a pretty state .. but quite frankly it smells putrid .. 4 different dumps along the highway through SC is 3 too many .. P U

I've been in Greenville. Nice town. Lots of businesses moving out there and the population is growing.

No one tried to deport me for being hispanic, either.

Can't say the same about central Florida.

[Dave Gray]

People want to simplify this issue, but it's a big, deep-seeded problem tied to history, race, class, desperation, education, poverty, power, inequality, etc.  It's not just about one incident, or one group of incidents.  It's a broken justice system and a broken culture of poverty clashing.  Both will have to change in order to make things better.

[pondwater]

Agree Spider. I am learning that a lot of people don't know what the word "semantics" means. It seems to be their fall back excuse and they throw it around when they are proven wrong

As I also like to point out, blacks also commit more crime as a group. 

Wrong again.  They are convicted of more crime, which is not the same thing.

It's semantics because we are saying the same thing. He's saying that blacks are convicted of crime at a higher rate. I'm saying that blacks as a group commit more crime. The deciding factor is that when you are convicted of a crime you are officially a criminal. Cry foul if you want. Claim racism if you want. But facts are facts.

Maybe you can answer for me MikeO. Is it your position that black people don't commit more crime and/or murders when their total percentage of populations is taken into account?

[Spider-Dan]

Didn't think you would answer the questions. So is it your position that black people don't commit more crime and/or murders when their total percentage of populations is taken into account?

Do I think they commit more crimes?  No.

Again, this is most easily seen when comparing drug enforcement in poor areas vs. rich areas.  You don't see NYPD stopping and frisking on Wall Street; that doesn't mean that bankers live a drug-free life.  When law enforcement targets certain groups as a policy, said groups will necessarily have a higher rate of arrest and conviction.

So until you can fix the fundamental problems with the justice system, statistics from that system aren't going to tell you much of value.  To take the argument to the extremes, no reasonable person would look at the incarceration rates of Jews in Nazi Germany as evidence that the Jews are inherently lawless criminals.

[pondwater]

People want to simplify this issue, but it's a big, deep-seeded problem tied to history, race, class, desperation, education, poverty, power, inequality, etc.  It's not just about one incident, or one group of incidents.  It's a broken justice system and a broken culture of poverty clashing.  Both will have to change in order to make things better.

I agree with this to a certain point. However Dave, can you honestly tell me that black people aren't more prone to violence and crime? The reasons for criminal acts don't matter, it all boils down to free will and personal choice. According to reports there were more than 20 criminal court cases in Maryland against Gray.

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

This guy would probably be alive today if he didn't make the choice to be a criminal. No one told him to run from the police. This is not to say that the police are without fault. But his life choices are what caused this.

[Rich]

But his life choices are what caused this.

His life choices may have caused him to run and be arrested. But his life choices aren't the reason his spine was severed while in police custody. His life choices didn't fold him up like a lawn chair.