Baltimore Riots

[Spider-Dan]

Your position was that whites and blacks commit crime at the same rate. But you only included "drug use", which is a major flaw in your argument. Did you actually mean just "drug use" or did you intend to imply that whites and blacks commit "all crimes" at the same rate?

I chose drug use as an example where it's already known that whites and blacks commit crime at the same rate, but blacks are arrested and convicted at a much higher rate.  Such an example serves to show that the law enforcement does apply the law selectively, contrary to your claims.

Furthermore, given that people like yourself frequently cite drug offenses as evidence of lawlessness, the fact that many of those convictions are the result of biased law enforcement undermines your position.

Can you or anyone prove police brutality? From the latest news that I've read, his injury is consistent with a bolt mounted in the van.

His severed spine and crushed larynx are consistent with self-injury?  This is not a serious response.

There is no excuse too flimsy for you to grasp on to defend the police.  And I don't understand why you're even bothering with an excuse: your previous statements indicate that if the police did inflict these injuries, they were justified in doing so.

Does Gray's rap sheet justify police brutality, or not?

[Dave Gray]

Conversely, the public shouldn't be a judge either.

I don't disagree with this at all.

[SCFinfan]

i've been through south carolina a few times .. it's a pretty state .. but quite frankly it smells putrid .. 4 different dumps along the highway through SC is 3 too many .. P U

when my wife and I smell something horribly bad .. we instantly say it smells like south carolina

Have you ever lived by the Everglades? Salt, death, and poop. That's Florida's scent to me.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ I've lived in Florida for 17 years, and I've never smelled that.

[Sunstroke]

I will say that the last time I visited South Carolina, I had a Southern Baptist Minister ask me if I was the antichrist...

[SCFinfan]

I will say that the last time I visited South Carolina, I had a Southern Baptist Minister ask me if I was the antichrist...

You are. Except twice his age.

[Phishfan]

To swing this back to Baltimore, six officer have been charged.

http://news.yahoo.com/freddie-gray-sustained-fatal-head-injury-in-back-of-police-van--report-124521845.html

[Spider-Dan]

From Phishfan's link, another quote from the prisoner earlier referred to by pondwater as "more valid than anyone":

But Donta Allen, who identified himself as the man in the van with Gray, told WJZ-TV that the report is inaccurate and that he just heard "a little banging."

"And they trying to make it seem like I told them that, I made it like Freddie Gray did that to hisself [sic]," Allen said to the station. "Why the f--- would he do that to hisself [sic]?"

Somehow, I'm guessing that the unimpeachable integrity of this person's account is now going to be significantly reduced in the eyes of the pro-brutality camp.

[pondwater]

From Phishfan's link, another quote from the prisoner earlier referred to by pondwater as "more valid than anyone":

Somehow, I'm guessing that the unimpeachable integrity of this person's account is now going to be significantly reduced in the eyes of the pro-brutality camp.

Yes, because of course I have special powers that allow me to know that the story from the only witness in the vehicle was going to change at a later date. However, I think the part of my post in bold below might clear that up for you.

No, but you brought up the statement of the other inmate riding in the paddy wagon. We cannot just disqualify his statement. In fact, unless something else comes out, his statement is probably the most useful at this point in time.

We might also want to focus on another part of the article in Phishfan's link:

According to multiple reports, the medical examiner found that Gray's head struck a bolt that jutted out in the back of the police van.

A law enforcement official told the Washington Post that this was not the 25-year-old man's only injury, and that his wounds were consistent with those generally seen in car crashes.

Multiple police sources told WJLA that the head wound corresponds with a bolt in the back of the vehicle, and that the impact broke Gray's neck.

I've seen several of the videos of the incident and it seems pretty clear that his neck wasn't broken when they put him in the vehicle.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, yes: the "something else coming out" is him saying that the cops' coverup story is a lie.  And based SOLELY on the fact that his story went from supporting the cops to not supporting the cops, you have apparently went from insisting that this prisoner's word is The Most Valid Statement to dismissing it offhand.  It's the least surprising trick in the book: we must treat witnesses as valid only if they are in favor of the cops.

And while we are on the subject of parts of the article to focus on: how about the part where Gray's death is ruled a homicide and 6 officers are charged with crimes ranging from false imprisonment to murder?  That's a pretty relevant part of the article that you seem to have skipped over.

I would also like to point out that the false imprisonment charge means that Gray was detained having broken no law.  So for all the BS nonsense going on about The Breakdown Of The Black Family, it's all a smokescreen: Gray DID NOTHING WRONG and for his trouble, he was beaten to death by police.

But hey, he was caught with some weed a whole bunch of times before, so he probably deserved it anyway, right?

[pondwater]

Well, yes: the "something else coming out" is him saying that the cops' coverup story is a lie.  And based SOLELY on the fact that his story went from supporting the cops to not supporting the cops, you have apparently went from insisting that this prisoner's word is The Most Valid Statement to dismissing it offhand.  It's the least surprising trick in the book: we must treat witnesses as valid only if they are in favor of the cops.

More assumptions by you Spider. This prisoner's story is as valid now as it was when it first surfaced. It is just as important, the details just changed. The first report indicated that he thought that Gray injured himself. This new version doesn't implicate the cops. It simply takes away the "Gray did it to himself" aspect.

And while we are on the subject of parts of the article to focus on: how about the part where Gray's death is ruled a homicide and 6 officers are charged with crimes ranging from false imprisonment to murder?  That's a pretty relevant part of the article that you seem to have skipped over.

Well Spider, that's the reason why they go to trial. Kind of like why all teams in the NFL play the games instead of just automatically crowing the Patriots the champions every year. Seems like these cops were going to be indicted regardless. Just like I remember you crying and bitching about Zimmerman going to trial and then crawfishing and spinning when he was found not guilty. Unlike you, if the jury says these guys are guilty, so be it. I'll accept the verdict and agree that they were guilty. However, from what I've seen in the media, I haven't seen evidence beyond a doubt that the cops are guilty of murder. If they came out with a video of Gray beating his head against the paddy wagon wall  into a coma, you would still find a way to spin it and argue about it.

[Spider-Dan]

More assumptions by you Spider. This prisoner's story is as valid now as it was when it first surfaced. It is just as important, the details just changed. The first report indicated that he thought that Gray injured himself. This new version doesn't implicate the cops. It simply takes away the "Gray did it to himself" aspect.

If, as you just said, "the most valid statement" is just as important as it was before, but now "takes away the Gray did it to himself aspect," then where did these injuries come from?  They could not have come from a legitimate arrest, as the false imprisonment charge indicates that Gray had not broken the law.

What is your current working explanation for these injuries?

Seems like these cops were going to be indicted regardless.

You say that as if cops are always indicted after killing an unarmed man.  That outcome is hardly common.

Just like I remember you crying and bitching about Zimmerman going to trial and then crawfishing and spinning when he was found not guilty. Unlike you, if the jury says these guys are guilty, so be it. I'll accept the verdict and agree that they were guilty.

I have consistently maintained that the verdict in the Zimmerman trial means that he is at least as innocent as OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony.  And I accepted that verdict, in exactly the same sense and to the extent that I accepted the Simpson and Anthony verdicts.

[pondwater]

If, as you just said, "the most valid statement" is just as important as it was before, but now "takes away the Gray did it to himself aspect," then where did these injuries come from?  They could not have come from a legitimate arrest, as the false imprisonment charge indicates that Gray had not broken the law.

What is your current working explanation for these injuries?

You do understand the video(s) evidence shows no police wrongdoing at this point. Who knows where Gray's injuries came from? I can't answer that question, I wasn't there. Can you 100% answer that question? Where did Zimmerman's injuries come from? A few witnesses in the Zimmerman trial changed their story also. If these cops are guilty, so be it. But you're jumping the gun. Let it play out. I find it funny that you support the idea of "gun control" and banning firearms. But yet you think that the cops are killing "unarmed citizens". So then how are we supposed to protect ourselves from the unruly and corrupt cops?  You complain about police brutality. Then you complain about the general population owning firearms to protect themselves from said dangers. Seems hypocritical to me.

I have consistently maintained that the verdict in the Zimmerman trial means that he is at least as innocent as OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony.  And I accepted that verdict, in exactly the same sense and to the extent that I accepted the Simpson and Anthony verdicts.

And if the cops in question are exonerated? You've already implied that they "murdered" someone. So now what?