If Asian-Americans saw whites the way whites see blacks

[Spider-Dan]

I saw this article earlier today.  It expounds on some tweets from Anil Dash, an Asian American startup CEO:

If Asian Americans talked about white Americans the way whites talk about black folks, they'd bring back the Exclusion Act.

We could point at how white Americans compare to Asian Americans in violence, in education, in income. We could call your kids thugs.

I am glad that white Americans don't have to endure the daily dehumanization that black people do; nobody should have to.

But when I hear a white man on TV talk about "where are the dads?" or "why are they so violent?" Fix your shit, my white friends. Fix it.

Every criticism that gets leveled at Black families is indistinguishable from the same traits in White families, from where we sit.

From outside, the thing that stands out is black kids are taught how to live in white society. White kids are taught to avoid black people.

Thing is, I have very sincere empathy for white people reckoning with no longer being the cultural default. You were raised on a myth.

White people raised without economic privilege are sold from birth on the idea that systematic racism can help them. And it's a lie.

And this is where most Asian American communities fall in line. We're complicit in, and reinforce, anti-blackness. It won't save us, either.

But imagine if every time a white person underwent a tragedy, you heard Asians mentioning white on white crime & white dropouts. Inhuman.

---

I think this person eloquently captured the shortsightedness of these attacks on "black culture" as the cause of the problems blacks experience in American society.  The idea that "white culture" is responsible for the difference in, say, dropout rates between whites and Asians, or divorce rates between whites and Asians... this theory would never be entertained for even a nanosecond by the mainstream media.  Yet "black culture" is frequently cited as the cause for every statistical shortcoming of the black population in America.

Not institutionalized racial profiling.
Not the dismantling of decent working class jobs.
Not enormous socioeconomic barriers made larger by slashed public school funding.
Not ballooning fines (used to supplant revenue lost to tax cuts) for minor citations that spiral into an unending vortex of debt.
No, it's rap music, sagging pants, mouthing off, and laziness.  That's why black people are having so many problems in this country.

[Rich]

I'm not sure what white people she listens to. I don't hear any white people I know talking about black culture. Mostly, I just hear them saying it is stupid to burn down your own neighborhoods... which it in fact is.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am sure the point.  I have never called all blacks thugs.  But I do call the thugs who are rioting or who run drugs or who commit burglary thugs. 

If she (or any other Asian American) wants to use a derogatory term for a white unmarried welfare women on welfare who has five kids with five different fathers, I got no problem with that.  If she wants to use derogatory term for a white father of 5 with 5 different moms who doesn't pay child support, I got no problem with that.  If she want to call a white who burglarizes a liqueur store a derogatory term, I got no problem with that.

I don't know anyone who calls all blacks thugs.  But there certainly are black thugs. 

[Spider-Dan]

Anil Dash is male.

I'm not sure what white people she listens to. I don't hear any white people I know talking about black culture.

Posted to this board over the last week:

2. The vast majority of blacks who are law abiding citizens must come out strong and unequivocally condemn the rioters.

Here is what the riots do. It allows folks moderate whites to consider the following position at least plausible:

See what they are doing in Baltimore,  white folks didn't riot b/c OJ got off killing a white person.  This shows how violent blacks are.  It is no wonder Baltimore cops don't give black male teenagers the benefit of the doubt,  the whole lot of them are thugs. The cops are justified in putting their safety first during a stop.

As I also like to point out, blacks also commit more crime as a group. Not only towards other races, but also towards themselves.

It really shouldn't be about black officers killing white people. It should be black people who shoot police officers. We know blacks commit more crimes, are arrested more and I would guess shoot cops more. If a cop is more likely to be shot by a certain race of course he is more likely to be ready to protect himself.

White cop kills black national news.  Black cop kills white page 17 of the local paper.

Isn't that racism too?

So then, the next time an unarmed white person is beaten or shot to death by cops, we can start talking about how police are rightfully scared of whites because whites commit much more crime than Asians, and ask what we can do to reduce the problem of single white welfare mothers and fatherless white kids, right?  When will the vast majority of law-abiding white citizens come out strong against the problem of white rioting in America?

[Buddhagirl]

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am done with this conversation.  By taking my quotes out of context shows you have no interest in having a conversation

  The Baltimore riots are no more defendable than Tim McViegh or The Boston marathon bombing.  Are there legitimate gripes with BPD? Yes.  But there are also legitimate gripes with the IRS and our policy towrds Chetnya.

The rioters are thugs, anyone who defnds the riots is a thug too. I see no difference between those who defend the riots and Mirre Kuznetsov.

[Spider-Dan]

Then let's talk about context.

In a thread about whites blaming black problems on black culture, your first response is to bring up:

- unmarried women on welfare
- women who have multiple kids with different fathers
- fathers who don't pay child support

Tell me, what do any of those things have to do with the Baltimore riots over police brutality?

BLACK CULTURE

[Rich]

I am done with this conversation.  By taking my quotes out of context shows you have no interest in having a conversation

That's what this guy does. He takes quotes out of context or attributes things to you that you never said. He's got "smartest guy in the room" syndrome when all he really is is a cookie cutter liberal spewing out the latest far left talking points and raising straw man arguments. He really is not worth having a discussion with other than if you are in the mood to be amused by his apparent lack of active listening skills and hyperactive spin mode. Sometimes it is quite laughable, other times it is quite sad.

He's here to argue you to death, not to have an honest and productive discussion with you. Remember that the next time you feel the desire to respond to one of his posts.

[Sunstroke]

That's what this guy does. He takes quotes out of context or attributes things to you that you never said. He's got "smartest guy in the room" syndrome when all he really is is a cookie cutter liberal spewing out the latest far left talking points and raising straw man arguments. He really is not worth having a discussion with other than if you are in the mood to be amused by his apparent lack of active listening skills and hyperactive spin mode. Sometimes it is quite laughable, other times it is quite sad.

He's here to argue you to death, not to have an honest and productive discussion with you. Remember that the next time you feel the desire to respond to one of his posts.

I've been saying this close to 10 years. And, while I sometimes agree with his over-arching points, the one constant truth is that Spider-Dan lives for the filibuster.

[Rich]

the one constant truth is that Spider-Dan lives for the filibuster.

That sounds like a pathological issue.

People typically express their viewpoints because they want to persuade others to see things their way or at the very least have people accept or understand their point of view as valid and viable. You don't have to agree with me, but at least understand the way I see things. We can respectfully disagree at the very least.

Putting words in people's mouths, flat out lying about what they are saying, using bizarre, exaggerative and ridiculous arguments and talking in circles until everyone else gets bored and you're the last one left is not an effective way to do that. All you're doing is alienating yourself and your viewpoints. If the goal is to accomplish that, then the above approach is a very effective way of doing it. But what is the point of doing that other than some sort of pathological need to be right?

[Spider-Dan]

So we're running with the "that's out of context" argument, then?  OK, fine.

When I think someone has taken my quotes out of context, I don't just say "that's out of context!" and leave it at that; I actually explain the context behind my (otherwise incriminating) quote.  To just say "you're taking my statement out of context" and then fail to explain the context is really just a lazy substitute for "stop badgering me with things I said before that are inconvenient now!"  And the claim that I "attribute things to people they never said" rings mighty hollow in a thread full of complaints about direct quotes.

Now, as to the finer points of internet discussion: if you think I make posts on politics or religion in the hopes of convincing the people who have the opposite position, you're pretty naive.  For example, I don't actually believe that I am magically going to convince conservatives that we should increase taxes and public spending, or Christian fundamentalists that same sex marriage is OK.  I mean, if I do convince one here or there, great!  An unexpected bonus.  But my posts aren't really for them; they're for everyone else.

So honestly, if you're the kind of person that opened this thread and thought it would be a stinging counterpoint to mention that black people are the ones burning down their own neighborhoods or if white women are on welfare with 5 kids they also deserve the same criticism, I'm probably not trying to convince you.  And if you sincerely believe that your argument is Super Reasonable and would convince a Reasonable Person on the opposite side of the aisle... yeah, you're naive.

That being said, I'm perfectly happy to respectfully disagree.  And I'm not running around forcing anyone to click Reply on a thread, nor am I forcing them to type statements that may prove inconvenient later.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am not debating if it is appropriate or not to riot.  If you feel rioting is appropriate you are thug, it is that black and white.

[CF DolFan]

This is even over the top for normal Dan. Typically he just tries to bait by adding meaning to what he knows people are saying. It seems like this time he is directly trying to make crap up in order to have something to play the victim

[Spider-Dan]

Hoodie, why are you focusing entirely on the usage of the word "thug"?  It was mentioned exactly once in the 10 tweets cited.  Furthermore, you said, "I have never called all blacks thugs."  When was it stated or implied that (some?) whites are calling all blacks thugs?  Anyone who would call "all blacks" thugs is an overt racist and is outside the scope of this discussion.

You seem to be making a general point against rioters, yet you felt it relevant to mention welfare mothers and deadbeat dads.  Since the apparent objection of the day is context, what do those two things have to do with one another?

And finally: white people riot all the time.  When they do it, the media never questions the deficiencies of White Culture.  No... it's just young people "being rowdy."

[Cathal]

Spider-Dan, while I understand your points and even agree to an extent, I'll say this as a white guy: the reason why, in my opinion, why we refer to a black culture and not white culture is because we see blacks as a more unified (for lack of a better word) group of people, what with FUBU (for us by us), black power (spoken freely by anyone at any point in time, such as P Diddy stating black power at an all star game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCpBtngVdSo), the projects, ghetto, etc... While I'm more or less agreeing with what you said, there really is nothing that lumps white culture together (other than some joking around things like we love mayonnaise, or we can't jump high, etc..).