Brady suspended 4 games; NE loses a 1st, 4th, and $1M

[Spider-Dan]

The outcome does not mean the process is irrelevant.

If you get arrested, are put in jail, go to trial and are convicted, you remain in jail.  That's not "the same thing" as if you are arrested, put in jail, and never get a trial in the first place.

[MikeO]

Brady won. No Suspension. Word just came down

[Dave Gray]

Well that sucks.

[CF DolFan]

The NFL has no power over it's employees.

[MikeO]

NFL is filing an appeal and this will drag on. Could go into 2016 season. Judge ruling overturned the suspension because of the NFL's process, didn't say the NFL was wrong. NFL can re-do the whole process and then the 4 game suspension can be instituted. 4 game suspension looks to be fine, just the way they went about it and probably won't happen till 2016.

[EDGECRUSHER]

NFL is filing an appeal and this will drag on. Could go into 2016 season. Judge ruling overturned the suspension because of the NFL's process, didn't say the NFL was wrong. NFL can re-do the whole process and then the 4 game suspension can be instituted. 4 game suspension looks to be fine, just the way they went about it and probably won't happen till 2016.

Pretty much. Basically, this would be like the Police mishandling evidence and screwing up on paperwork. The guy isn't innocent, but the process was all screwed up.

Unfortunately, this Judge was right. The NFL's process for suspensions is a complete joke and lawless. Brady is guilty as hell, but they have no rhyme or reason when it comes to suspensions and fines. They need a huge overhaul for how they do things. Basically, someone that Goodell answers to for when he does these things.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Pretty much. Basically, this would be like the Police mishandling evidence and screwing up on paperwork. The guy isn't innocent, but the process was all screwed up.

Mishandling evidence is a bad analogy.  Here is a better one.

You get into a cab and tell the cab driver you need to get to the airport in a hurry because your plane is leaving soon.  You neither tell him to violate traffic laws nor specifically tell him to follow them.  The penalty for speeding/running a red light/reckless driving is a fine not jail.

The cab driver allegedly speeds and runs various red light for your benefit of getting to the airport.   You say nothing to the driver about his driving, nor do you call 911 to report his reckless driving.

You are sentenced to jail time for being generally aware that the cab driver was violating traffic laws.

You appeal that sentence and you admit to telling the driver you were in a hurry, but deny knowing that he violated any traffic laws, claiming you were on your phone checking your email.

Your conviction and sentence is overturned on four grounds:

(1) Being "generally aware" someone else is committing a crime and not reporting it is not a crime in itself.

(2) The max sentence for the underlying behavior is a fine not jail.

(3) The fact that the alleged  behavior benefited you is not sufficient evidence to determine you were generally aware of it.

(4) The only evidence that the driver drove reckless was that you didn't miss your flight, nobody actually saw the driver violate any traffic laws. 

[Phishfan]

Mishandling evidence is a bad analogy.  Here is a better one.

You get into a cab and tell the cab driver you need to get to the airport in a hurry because your plane is leaving soon.  You neither tell him to violate traffic laws nor specifically tell him to follow them.  The penalty for speeding/running a red light/reckless driving is a fine not jail.

The cab driver allegedly speeds and runs various red light for your benefit of getting to the airport.   You say nothing to the driver about his driving, nor do you call 911 to report his reckless driving.

You are sentenced to jail time for being generally aware that the cab driver was violating traffic laws.

You appeal that sentence and you admit to telling the driver you were in a hurry, but deny knowing that he violated any traffic laws, claiming you were on your phone checking your email.

Your conviction and sentence is overturned on four grounds:

(1) Being "generally aware" someone else is committing a crime and not reporting it is not a crime in itself.

(2) The max sentence for the underlying behavior is a fine not jail.

(3) The fact that the alleged  behavior benefited you is not sufficient evidence to determine you were generally aware of it.

(4) The only evidence that the driver drove reckless was that you didn't miss your flight, nobody actually saw the driver violate any traffic laws. 

You completely missed the pieces of evidence where the driver is on the phone discussing how you are complaining about not getting there fast enough still (the staff cussing Brady for complaining about the balls) and how you destroyed your phone to keep anyone from checking it to see if you were actually on it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

You completely missed the piece of evidence where the driver is on the phone discussing how you are complaining about not getting there fast enough still (the staff cussing Brady for complaining about the balls).

That might hurt you with (3) and (4) does nothing to overcome (1) and (2). And you only need to win on one of those four, not all four. The ruling starts by saying, basically even if everything the NFL claims is true the CBA doesn't allow you to punish him and ends with, we question what the NFL claims isn't tainted, but we really don't need to determine that. 

[masterfins]

Mishandling evidence is a bad analogy.  Here is a better one.

You get into a cab and tell the cab driver you need to get to the airport in a hurry because your plane is leaving soon.  You neither tell him to violate traffic laws nor specifically tell him to follow them.  The penalty for speeding/running a red light/reckless driving is a fine not jail.

The cab driver allegedly speeds and runs various red light for your benefit of getting to the airport.   You say nothing to the driver about his driving, nor do you call 911 to report his reckless driving.

You are sentenced to jail time for being generally aware that the cab driver was violating traffic laws.

You appeal that sentence and you admit to telling the driver you were in a hurry, but deny knowing that he violated any traffic laws, claiming you were on your phone checking your email.

Your conviction and sentence is overturned on four grounds:

(1) Being "generally aware" someone else is committing a crime and not reporting it is not a crime in itself.

(2) The max sentence for the underlying behavior is a fine not jail.

(3) The fact that the alleged  behavior benefited you is not sufficient evidence to determine you were generally aware of it.

(4) The only evidence that the driver drove reckless was that you didn't miss your flight, nobody actually saw the driver violate any traffic laws. 

"Generally" that's a fair assessment.  This is a loss for Goodell, not the NFL, which I think is a good thing because Goodell acts like a tyrant.  The penalties that Kraft accepted were plenty considering the infractions involved.  Not to mention in the next time the Union & NFL bargain over salaries, etc., the NFL will have a bargaining chip to try and keep salaries down.  Not to mention everyone knows that Brady is lying about not knowing the balls were being deflated, so this will follow him forever.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

"Generally" that's a fair assessment.  This is a loss for Goodell, not the NFL, which I think is a good thing because Goodell acts like a tyrant.  The penalties that Kraft accepted were plenty considering the infractions involved.  Not to mention in the next time the Union & NFL bargain over salaries, etc., the NFL will have a bargaining chip to try and keep salaries down.  Not to mention everyone knows that Brady is lying about not knowing the balls were being deflated, so this will follow him forever.

I think the net result of this is a loss of power for the NFL and Goodell.  You have a judge in Minn that said the NFL completely ignores the CBA and one in the home district of the NFL coming pretty close. 

Next CBA the commish will not be the arbitrator on appeals, decent chance he has heard his last appeal and will grant future request to be recused (not that would have changed the key point in this ruling, lack of notice that what is being alleged would result in punishment)

As for what Brady knew and what happened.  Here is what is certain:  Brady wanted the balls to be inflated with as little air as possible.  That if the NEP balls started the game a the lowest legal point and the Colts balls started the game at the highest legal point, it is entirely plausible that at half time NE balls would be underinflated and the Colts wouldn't be.  The texts could be explained by Brady's instance that the equipment managers get the balls to exactly the lowest legal level.  But it is also possible that Brady wanted them to go further than that. 

Big loss for NFL and Goodell, huge win the NFLPA. 

[MikeO]

What will happen within a month or so. Goodell will run the business side of the NFL. Troy Vincent (most likely him could be someone else) will rule on all suspensions and the on the field matters. The commissioner job will be split up. Vincent being an ex-player will be acceptable to the NFLPA (even though he had a hand in the Brady mess it is a good compromise to get through this current CBA)

When this CBA expires (end of this decade I believe) you will see a lockout and a huge fight. Will be much nastier than the last lockout

NFL will win something back on appeal. Brady will end up serving some sort of suspension. Won't be this season but might be a game or two next year to open the year.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

When was the last time the commissioner of the NFL refused to attend the season opener and congratulate last years superbowl winning team?

 

[Spider-Dan]

That might hurt you with (3) and (4) does nothing to overcome (1) and (2).

The penalties for resisting arrest, obstruction of justice, and contempt of court can be much more severe than the penalty for whatever crime you were resisting or obstructing.

Brady didn't get a 4-game suspension just for being aware; his obstruction of the investigation was a significant factor.  Furthermore, you said that "no one saw a crime being committed," but the NE equipment manager is on tape bringing the balls into the bathroom before taking them to the field, which is a violation of the rules.

[bsmooth]

The penalties for resisting arrest, obstruction of justice, and contempt of court can be much more severe than the penalty for whatever crime you were resisting or obstructing.

Brady didn't get a 4-game suspension just for being aware; his obstruction of the investigation was a significant factor.  Furthermore, you said that "no one saw a crime being committed," but the NE equipment manager is on tape bringing the balls into the bathroom before taking them to the field, which is a violation of the rules.

And? You need evidence that Brady directed him to lower the pressure below the legal limit. That evidence does not exist. Also the NFL refused to make evidence available to the defense, and refused to present one of the investigators. The NFL screwed up and the judge nailed them.