Who can stop the Panthers

[EKnight]

There aren't "a few teams that are already thought of as better than the 72 Miami team" as you put it. It's kind of funny but the 85 Bears are typically considered the best team ever and the 72 Phins as second.  Even funnier considering their one loss was to the Phins. 

There actually are a few teams, but this is the kind of response I usually see from Miami fans. I've seen lists that include one of Montana's 49ers teams, one (or more) of the Steel Curtain teams, and the obvious 85 Bears. Have a look at this link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nfl-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/


I'm not, by any stretch, arguing that the above list is complete or perfect. But it does list multiple teams ahead of the 72 undefeated team. Thus, I stand by my statement- there exists several opinions that more than one team is considered "better" than the undefeated 72 Dolphins.

Edit to state that I don't want to seem like I'm diminishing what an undefeated season is or what it means. It's a fantastic accomplishment that has not been repeated in the 40+ years since it happened, which absolutely makes that team one of the greatest ever. I just don't agree with the idea that it makes them the greatest team ever, which the general NFL media seems to agree with. To me it's like Wilt's 100 point game. No one has done that either, but to make the argument that he's the best player of all time because of that is nonsense.

[CF DolFan]

I just Googled "greatest nfl teams of all time" and these came up on the front page. 3 out of 5 had the Bears listed #1 and the other two had the Dolphins #1. While you can find the occasional 2007 Patriots team I think it's pretty safe ... even for us Miami Fans ... to say "the 85 Bears are typically considered the best team ever and the 72 Phins as second".

https://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/greatest.html
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/371657-the-25-greatest-nfl-teams-of-all-time-super-bowl-era
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-top-7-super-bowl-winning-teams-of-all-time.html/?a=viewall
Dolphins #1 Bears #2

http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-teams/
Dolphins #1 Bears #2

http://nypost.com/2014/01/20/10-best-teams-in-super-bowl-history/
 Bears #1 then Dolphins #2

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Wait-wait-wait...did you really just reference a Bleacher Report article and a Cheatsheet post to support your position? Are you sure you don't want to include www.FatWilliesSportsBlog.com and www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com as well?

If the only criteria you are using is team record, then sure, go ahead and list the '72 Phins as the best team. I personally think "Best Team" should incorporate much more than that, and if I was making a "Best NFL Teams Ever" list, I might find a place in the top-5 for the Phins undefeated squad, but I don't think I could put them in the top-3.

That said, I was turned down for an NFL analyst position at www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com, so what do I know?

[Spider-Dan]

The 72 undefeated season is a nice thing for Miami fans, but it's not viewed the same way by anyone else.

This fails to explain why the '72 Dolphins come up in the media literally every year as the last undefeated team loses.

It's not Miami Dolphins fans that are running segments on ESPN about champagne corks being popped.

I've never seen a single "Greatest teams of all time," list that has them at number 1, either.

You've also never seen a single "Greatest teams of all time" list that doesn't have them in the competition.  Outside of the '85 Bears, what other team can you say that's mentioned in practically EVERY discussion of greatest teams ever?  That alone proves the point.

[CF DolFan]

^^^ Wait-wait-wait...did you really just reference a Bleacher Report article and a Cheatsheet post to support your position? Are you sure you don't want to include www.FatWilliesSportsBlog.com and www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com as well?

If the only criteria you are using is team record, then sure, go ahead and list the '72 Phins as the best team. I personally think "Best Team" should incorporate much more than that, and if I was making a "Best NFL Teams Ever" list, I might find a place in the top-5 for the Phins undefeated squad, but I don't think I could put them in the top-3.

That said, I was turned down for an NFL analyst position at www.SportsJunkieLivingInMyMom sBasement.com, so what do I know?

I quoted the first 5 returns which include ESPN and the New York Post. Unless Dolphin fans are running Google then I think it's safe to say someone else is talking about them as well.

[EKnight]

This fails to explain why the '72 Dolphins come up in the media literally every year as the last undefeated team loses.

It's not Miami Dolphins fans that are running segments on ESPN about champagne corks being popped.
You've also never seen a single "Greatest teams of all time" list that doesn't have them in the competition.  Outside of the '85 Bears, what other team can you say that's mentioned in practically EVERY discussion of greatest teams ever?  That alone proves the point.

That's fine. I must have misunderstood you in that you meant they were in the discussion for the greatest team of all time. Guess I was confused by this post:

It is hard to imagine a scenario in which someone argues for the 17-0 Super Bowl Champion Dolphins as the greatest team ever if a 19-0 Super Bowl Champion exists. 

You know, since you didn't speak of them as being "in the discussion," but instead argue that they're the greatest team ever. I'm sure you can understand how that would be unclear.

FWIW, I tend to agree with Sunstroke- that 72 team would be top five, but based on their weak schedule, and the fact, that they weren't even expected to win the Super Bowl that year, I wouldn't put them in the top three either.

Back on topic, at this point, the Panthers have the highest scoring offense in the league, and the Giants have the worst pass defense. Hoping that the hype of a potential undefeated season doesn't get Carolina taking this game lightly.

[Spider-Dan]

When one is having a discussion about the greatest teams of all time, one may argue for one's choice for that honor.  This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

I also find it rather hilarious that you are going on and on about the "weak schedule" of the '72 Dolphins.  Of the '72 Dolphins 14 wins, 9 of them came against teams with losing records; of the '15 Panthers 13 wins, 11 have come against teams with losing records.  Of the 16 games on CAR's schedule, 14 of them are against teams that currently have losing records... and you're citing strength of schedule as a disqualifying factor?  You might want to reconsider that talking point if CAR makes it to 16-0.

[EKnight]

Given that Carolina, thus far, has a SoS of .444 vs. 72 Miami's .367, maybe I won't.

You stated that they're the worst 11-0 team in history. Now, they're the worst 13-0 team ever, right? I'm OK with that. They can be the absolute WORST NFL team to ever win 14, 15, whatever number of games if they win it all. The guy that graduates at he bottom of his class in med school is still called "Dr."

[Spider-Dan]

"The guy who graduates at the bottom of the class" is, indeed, a fair analogy for this year's Panthers.  However, since the Panthers haven't actually graduated yet, and have miserably failed the midterms in recent years, perhaps you should hold off on discussing exactly where they reside in the pantheon of greatness.

[EKnight]

32-12 with 3 division titles in the last three seasons is considered failing miserably. Got it. Carry on.

Edit to add- I never once made any claim that they are an all-time "great" team. I'm not sure I've even said that they're the best team in the league. But your dismissal of what they're accomplishing without their career leading rusher and without thier #1 WR this year is absurd.

[Spider-Dan]

Failing to win a divisional round game means they aced the daily homework but failed miserably on the midterms.  But yeah, CAR did add two more divisional championship banners to the rafters, so there is that.

Furthermore, you directly compared the 2015 Panthers to the 1972 Dolphins... a team that comes up in practically every discussion of "all-time great teams".  So again, you should probably hold off on the documentary.

[Tenshot13]

All of these dumb analogies are killing me...

Bottom line is Carolina is the best team in the league until someone beats them.  You can't put them in any all time great list until after the end of the season.

[EKnight]

Furthermore, you directly compared the 2015 Panthers to the 1972 Dolphins... a team that comes up in practically every discussion of "all-time great teams". 

No I didn't. YOU opened that door in reply #25. You're the one who is all worried about what people will say about the 72 Dolphins if Carolina (who you believe is the worst undefeated team ever) should go 19-0. That's all on you.

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, I certainly compared them directly; I said that this year's CAR team has faced an even worse slate of opponents than that MIA team.  And that's fine, because my position is that one of the widely acknowledged greatest teams of all time is better than this CAR team; a team whose crowning achievement so far is a division title (or if you want to go further back, a solitary Super Bowl loss).

In response to that characterization, you replied and cited opponent win %.   But the only way such a response makes sense is if you are disagreeing with me and claiming that CAR is better; otherwise, why bother replying?  What possible point could you have been making, other to claim that a team that has never won anything of consequence compares favorably to arguably the best team ever?

edit: If Golden State had finished last year with a losing record and an early playoff exit, I doubt many people would be comparing them to the '96 Bulls today.  But apparently, you think CAR merits that comparison...

[EKnight]

Josh Norman has held DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, TY Hilton, Dez Braynt, and Julio Jones to a combined 9 receptions for 89 yards this year. Wow.