New normal?

[Spider-Dan]

I'm pretty sure that you just made that up.

It's rather funny watching conservatives make wild swings between Obama's Chicago was a crime-ridden cesspool full of black-on-black murders than liberals won't talk about followed immediately by rampant gang violence committed with fully-automatic weapons during Prohibition was all Fake News.  I guess guys like Al Capone and John Dillinger were famous for their music careers, or something.

No problem with me whatsoever. I don't live in Chicago so I don't care either way.

Ahem:

The liberals lying and twisting facts to fit their agenda and the public's widespread ignorance and acceptance of the leftist mainstream media propaganda is the problem, not firearms. Hell, Negros shooting negros in the streets of Detroit, Chicago, DC, and other liberal cities are much bigger problems and kill far more people in this country than school shootings.

Some consistency, please.

And this is before we get into your repeated declarations about how black people "commit more crime as a group".  Since well over 99.99% of black people haven't committed any crime at all, why have you repeatedly referenced black crime rates?

This "99%" line of argument is absurd and you should drop it.

[Fau Teixeira]

They are a private company and I wouldn't expect them to be forced into doing anything outside of pay taxes and their employees. Education, contraceptives, adoption and other ways people could compromise.

100% agree.. medicare for all that way companies don't need to be involved with healthcare

[pondwater]

It's rather funny watching conservatives make wild swings between Obama's Chicago was a crime-ridden cesspool full of black-on-black murders than liberals won't talk about followed immediately by rampant gang violence committed with fully-automatic weapons during Prohibition was all Fake News.  I guess guys like Al Capone and John Dillinger were famous for their music careers, or something.

So how many fully automatic weapons killed people during this rampant crime spree you speak of? 100? 500? 1000? 10,000? Automatic weapons were not a statistically relevant issue then or ever since.

Ahem:

Some consistency, please.

Nothing in my quote you posted indicates anything other than liberal hypocrisy. Dead people in Chicago are the same as dead people in Florida. You lefty guys seem to prefer to sensationalize one over the other. Hmmmm, I wonder why?

And this is before we get into your repeated declarations about how black people "commit more crime as a group".  Since well over 99.99% of black people haven't committed any crime at all, why have you repeatedly referenced black crime rates?

This "99%" line of argument is absurd and you should drop it.

Here we go spinning the subject again. First you deflect to Muslims and Terrorists. Now it's deflect to black crime rates. The only reason you think that relevant statistical numbers to this topic are absurd and should be dropped is because they prove that there is no epidemic of firearm deaths. And in all actuality, the nation’s overall gun death rate has declined significantly since the late 80s/early 90s. The numbers don't lie. You call them absurd because they blow your whole premise out of the water.

[Spider-Dan]

By the standard you are using to judge gun crime, 9/11 was not "statistically relevant."

I would be much more content with your approach to policy by statistics if you applied it consistently, but you don't.  3,000 deaths in NYC means we spend trillions of dollars playing world police, killing hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place.  Firearms cause many more intentional (<--- this part is important) deaths than that every year and your only answer is less gun regulation.

[pondwater]

By the standard you are using to judge gun crime, 9/11 was not "statistically relevant."

I would be much more content with your approach to policy by statistics if you applied it consistently, but you don't.  3,000 deaths in NYC means we spend trillions of dollars playing world police, killing hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place.  Firearms cause many more intentional (<--- this part is important) deaths than that every year and your only answer is less gun regulation.

Stop deflecting, none of that has anything to do with this topic. You just bypass the facts and stats and switch topics. Also, intentional deaths aren't really relevant since you fail to note that more than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns, die by suicide, not homicide. Then add in self defense, and legal interventions and your argument falls flat.

That leaves us with intentional homicides. And if you didn't know, intentional means that someone intends to do it. If someone intends to kill someone you're not going to stop them. It's been happening for thousands of years and will continue no matter how much you bitch, moan, and cry about it. A dead body is a dead body, whether it's in Chicago or Florida. Less than 1% privately owned firearms in the US ever intentionally or unintentionally kill people. However, according to the FBI more people are killed with hammers & clubs each year than all assault rifles. And I'm pretty sure that those are intentional and not suicides. Go ban hammers and clubs because the nation’s overall gun death rate has declined significantly since the late 80s/early 90s. We don't have a gun problem we have a hammer and club problem.

[Spider-Dan]

Stop deflecting, none of that has anything to do with this topic.

You're the one advocating the premise that our level of concern about a topic should be tied to its statistical impact.  If that reasoning was sound, it would apply outside of the one instance you're using it for.  It does not.

Also, intentional deaths aren't really relevant since you fail to note that more than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns, die by suicide, not homicide.

Suicides are intentional.  Reducing the availability of guns would also reduce suicide by gun.  I'm not sure why you believe that is somehow irrelevant.

Then add in self defense, and legal interventions and your argument falls flat.

That leaves us with intentional homicides.

Given your endless rants about exactly what constitutes an illegal gun, I'm surprised that you seem to be unaware that shooting & killing someone in self-defense is both intentional and a homicide.  Intentional homicide is not necessarily illegal.

And in case you are curious as to whether my intention is to disarm Law-Abiding Patriots who are Merely Standing Their Ground, that is absolutely the case.  Ultimately, I would like to disarm both the George Zimmermans of America (who are confident in using their sidearm to resolve conflicts knowing the legal system will back them up, and are proven right) and the Michael Dunns of America (who are equally confident, and are proven wrong).

[pondwater]

You're the one advocating the premise that our level of concern about a topic should be tied to its statistical impact.  If that reasoning was sound, it would apply outside of the one instance you're using it for.  It does not.

It does apply outside of this instance. Which also would be outside the scope of this thread. This thread is not about Muslims, terrorists, or black crime rates. It's about mass murder of innocent school children per OP. Once and for all, stay on topic.

Suicides are intentional.  Reducing the availability of guns would also reduce suicide by gun.  I'm not sure why you believe that is somehow irrelevant.
Given your endless rants about exactly what constitutes an illegal gun, I'm surprised that you seem to be unaware that shooting & killing someone in self-defense is both intentional and a homicide.  Intentional homicide is not necessarily illegal.

Rants? LMFAO. Anyhow, I was under the assumption that you understood that we were talking about illegal unjustified homicides, e.g. the topic of this thread-"mass murder of innocent school children." Given that fact, suicides, self defense, and legal interventions don't really have anything to do with mass murder of innocent school children. They are in separate categories altogether.

And in case you are curious as to whether my intention is to disarm Law-Abiding Patriots who are Merely Standing Their Ground, that is absolutely the case.  Ultimately, I would like to disarm both the George Zimmermans of America (who are confident in using their sidearm to resolve conflicts knowing the legal system will back them up, and are proven right) and the Michael Dunns of America (who are equally confident, and are proven wrong).

That's all fine and good but you're still missing the topic again. If you would like to discuss the merits of firearms and self defense, please start a thread. If you would like to discuss Muslims and terrorists, please start a thread. But please stop all the mumbo jumbo circular babbling trying to side step relevant statistics and facts.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

2018: 11 weeks; 17 school shootings. 

[Tenshot13]

2018: 11 weeks; 17 school shootings. 

Let it be known this is not 17 mass school shootings.  One doesn't involve students, it just happened in a University parking lot.  Some are crimes of passion involving two people.  One is a dumb teacher who's gun misfired.  Some accidental.  A few where there were no fatalities.  3 out of the 17 are what people think of as "school shootings".  If that's part of the argument, state so, otherwise it is misleading and fear mongering.

[pondwater]

Let it be known this is not 17 mass school shootings.  One doesn't involve students, it just happened in a University parking lot.  Some are crimes of passion involving two people.  One is a dumb teacher who's gun misfired.  Some accidental.  A few where there were no fatalities.  3 out of the 17 are what people think of as "school shootings".  If that's part of the argument, state so, otherwise it is misleading and fear mongering.

That's what the lefties do. They twist the truth and facts to fit their agenda through fear mongering and misleading ignorant people.

Same thing with the terms "assault weapon" and AR15. In the real world, it's just another semi automatic weapon, just like any other one. But to fit their agenda, it's a "weapon of war". If that's the case then so is Grandpa's hunting rifle and little Kevin's 10/22.

I guess little Kevin gots him a "WAR" on dem dere squirrels... 

[Sunstroke]

That's what the lefties do. They twist the truth and facts to fit their agenda through fear mongering and misleading ignorant people.

That's what the righties do. They twist the truth and facts to fit their agenda through fear mongering and misleading ignorant people.

Well, that was too damned easy...

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Let it be known this is not 17 mass school shootings.  One doesn't involve students, it just happened in a University parking lot.  Some are crimes of passion involving two people.  One is a dumb teacher who's gun misfired.  Some accidental.  A few where there were no fatalities.  3 out of the 17 are what people think of as "school shootings".  If that's part of the argument, state so, otherwise it is misleading and fear mongering.

I didn't say mass, 17 shooting on school property.  But okay let's use your number and describor.  

3 months; 3 mass shootings.

[Tenshot13]

I didn't say mass, 17 shooting on school property.  But okay let's use your number and describor.  

3 months; 3 mass shootings.

Exactly...that is really bad.  So why is it that stats need to be padded?  It's fear mongering and agendas.  This isn't a left vs right thing this is a media manipulation thing.

[Fau Teixeira]

I don't know that 17 school shootings is a misleading number. there were guns on school property .. they went off. the fact that nobody got hurt in some cases is an happy stroke of luck.  the fact that this has happened 17 times already is enough and significant. I don't want to rely on my son's well being to a happy stroke of luck if someone brings a gun to his elementary school.

[CF DolFan]

One was an instructor accidentally firing a gun in a safety class and another was at an apartment complex that was a part of the university so I wouldn't call them school shootings.

With that said there is no doubt there have been too many mass shootings. Even if it's one a year that is too many. We need to secure our children.

Funny that no one was blaming the "bombs" in Austin and yet they figured out how to stop the person responsible. Maybe we can take the focus off of "guns"  long enough to figure out to stop school shootings.