New normal?

[CF DolFan]

The biggest issue in gun control ... like a lot of other things ... is enforcement. If we were enforcing policies already in place said gunman would have been stopped by local police and the FBI. We are like that with immigration too. Enforce the rules we already have and it would work. OK ... maybe not work but it would certainly help

[pondwater]

Okay.  That is not perfect but a great start.  In much the same way requiring all new cars to have antilock brakes wasn't perfect because it left millions of cars on the road without the better brakes, but such a law would stop more guns from entering the system. Much like the 1807 law prohibiting the importation of slavery didn't end the injustice of slavery it was a step in the right direction.

OK, hypothetically say you do that. But then when you liberals realize that most of those 350-400 million firearms that are already in circulation can be repaired and refurbished indefinitely by replacing worn parts. Then you're going to want to ban replacement parts. It's a never ending rabbit hole with you people.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I bought a gun from the classified ads with serial#123 from Joe Fuckface 3 years ago for $100. Nobody knows that I own gun with serial#123. I sell gun to Sally Cunthead for $300. Nobody knows that I ever owned the gun with serial#123. And nobody knows that Sally Cunthead owns gun with serial#123. And since nobody knows anything there is nothing to enforce. I would assume that the majority of firearms in the hands of private citizens fit this scenario. Records are only kept from the original sale when it was new.

1.  If Joe has a record that he legally sold it to you, but you can't prove you complied with the law Sally's victims family now owns all your property in a wrongful death lawsuit.

2.  Sally is actually an undercover ATF agent, you don't run a background check so you know this.  Once you hand her the gun she puts handcuffs on you and you spend the next twenty years in jail for illegal gun transfer.  

There are plenty of laws that could reduce gun violence, the only question is will congress listen to the 97% of Americans who want background checks for all gun sales including gun shows and private sales.  

[pondwater]

The biggest issue in gun control ... like a lot of other things ... is enforcement. If we were enforcing policies already in place said gunman would have been stopped by local police and the FBI. We are like that with immigration too. Enforce the rules we already have and it would work. OK ... maybe not work but it would certainly help

Not to mention that Mass Shooting are a very "limited subset" of gun deaths. Hell, suicide is two-thirds of ALL gun deaths alone. That's 66% before you factor in other categories. So most gun deaths are people killing themselves. Suicide isn't a good thing, but there's a big difference between killing yourself and killing multiple other people. 

[pondwater]

1.  If Joe has a record that he legally sold it to you, but you can't prove you complied with the law Sally's victims family now owns all your property in a wrongful death lawsuit.

2.  Sally is actually an undercover ATF agent, you don't run a background check so you know this.  Once you hand her the gun she puts handcuffs on you and you spend the next twenty years in jail for illegal gun transfer.  

There are plenty of laws that could reduce gun violence, the only question is will congress listen to the 97% of Americans who want background checks for all gun sales including gun shows and private sales.  

After being involved in a few private sales, I can tell you that 95% of the time Joe can't and doesn't care enough to prove he sold it to you. I think you're a little naive about how this stuff actually works. They can sometimes, maybe, kind of sort of trace the 1st buyer of a new firearm going back a certain amount of time. Anything after that is a needle in the haystack kind of thing.   

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

OK, hypothetically say you do that. But then when you liberals realize that most of those 350-400 million firearms that are already in circulation can be repaired and refurbished indefinitely by replacing worn parts. Then you're going to want to ban replacement parts. It's a never ending rabbit hole with you people.

Included would be a ban on the sale of parts that are unique to semi automatics less people start selling kits. But yes I do realize this is not a 100% solution.  However having 400 million guns is better than 450 million.  If coupled with serious restrictions on gun transfers we could see a serious drop in new guns getting into the hands of criminals.  

Let's say "responsibility gun owner" has three AR15s and he knows that he will never be able replace them.  Is he going to sell one for a profit at a gun show that is being purchased to be resold to an inner city gang?  Probably not.  But that is happening today.  

And while you as a responsible gun owner might be able to extend the life of you gun through proper maintenance, I am sorta okay with that as long as it stays safely tucked away in your gun safe.  However what will happen is gangs will have much much harder time acquiring replacement to guns lost due to neglect or police confiscation.  

Look I get that it is an impossible dream to believe that even if every senator and rep decided to have a change of heart and enacted everything gun control advocates want to think that Parkland will be the last school shooting.  What I want is less school shootings in 2019 than in 2017 and less than that in 2020 and still fewer in 2021.  Right now we are seeing the shooting increasing.  We need to be as serious about decreasing gun deaths as we're about decreasing kids getting killed getting on and off school busses 25 years ago. Did require cars to stop eliminate kids getting killed? No.  but it sure did improve the situation.

[pondwater]

Included would be a ban on the sale of parts that are unique to semi automatics less people start selling kits.

On an AR15, the lower receiver is considered the actual firearm by the ATF. All the other parts are just parts that can be bought over the internet. First you want to ban the gun, then you want to ban parts for the grandfathered guns. I already knew what your reply was going to be, haha. Neither one is gonna happen so it's a moot point.

[Spider-Dan]

If you ban all new semi autos made tomorrow going forward but everything already manufactured and owned is grandfathered. Then by definition, they are NOT BANNED.

However, what IS BANNED are "all new semi autos made tomorrow going forward."  And if said ban prevents every single semi-auto made after today from being used in the commission of a crime, that ban is highly effective and is working EXACTLY AS INTENDED.  For example:

I bought a gun from the classified ads with serial#123 from Joe Fuckface 3 years ago for $100.

Was serial #123 manufactured after January 1, 1987?  If so, go directly to jail, as it was illegal for you to purchase that weapon.

And since nobody knows anything there is nothing to enforce.

Hey guys, it turns out that crack cocaine is actually 100% "legal" as long as you don't get caught with it!

[pondwater]

However, what IS BANNED are "all new semi autos made tomorrow going forward."  And if said ban prevents every single semi-auto made after today from being used in the commission of a crime, that ban is highly effective and is working EXACTLY AS INTENDED.

Again, you're twisting things to frame your silly arguement.  If it's the exact same weapon, it's either banned or not. It doesn't matter when it was made. In this hypothetical example, semi autos are not banned[/quote]

For example:
Was serial #123 manufactured after January 1, 1987?  If so, go directly to jail, as it was illegal for you to purchase that weapon.

You should stop with your 1986 red herring. It really serves no purpose and makes you look silly. 1986 has nothing to do with anything related to this conversation.

Hey guys, it turns out that crack cocaine is actually 100% "legal" as long as you don't get caught with it!

What's your point? 99% of all firearms in the US are legal even if you get caught with them.

[Spider-Dan]

You're insisting that "it doesn't matter when it was made" because the fact that the 1986 gun control law effectively removed all new fully-automatic firearms from public availability exactly as it was intended to completely and thoroughly disproves the claim that gun bans don't work.

In 1986, Congress said, "No more new fully-auto firearms shall be allowed into public hands from this day forward."
It was completely successful.
We can do it again for other weapons, too.

Will that make every other firearm magically disappear?  No.  But you can never make any progress without first stopping the flow of new weapons.

[pondwater]

In 1986, Congress said, "No more new fully-auto firearms shall be allowed into public hands from this day forward."

Stopped people from killing each other didn't it?

[pondwater]

The numbers keep climbing. Liberals are selling a lot of ar15s, ammunition, magazines and NRA memberships with their misplaced hissy fit.........

[Fau Teixeira]

i think the way firearms culpability should work is that if you sell a firearm without performing a background check and properly registering the sale .. you should be criminally negligent if a crime is committed with that firearm. As many steps back as it takes even if it's been re-sold 14 times and you were #3 and you fucked up the chain of custody then you're the guy that gets jail time along with the guy using the gun during the crime.

[Spider-Dan]

The numbers keep climbing. Liberals are selling a lot of ar15s, ammunition, magazines and NRA memberships with their misplaced hissy fit.........

I don't think it matters.  Stats show that it's largely the same set of nuts stockpiling more and more guns (3% of Americans own half of the total guns), and they already have enough weapons to deal plenty of damage to your average movie theater, elementary school, or open-air concert.

We need to radically reduce the number of guns those people have to make a real impact.

[Fau Teixeira]

I think eventually we'll see an outright ban of the ar-15 and any similar weapon. it's pretty much inevitable at this point. 
And we'll eventually see a constitutional amendment narrowing the 2nd if the NRA obstructionism keeps going.
If you buy politicians and you give the people only one way to solve a constitutional problem, they'll eventually take it.