Proper Anthem Conduct

[Fau Teixeira]

I've said it in another thread and i'll say it here, for all everyone claims patriotism and "the troops", people really don't care about our troops.

If they did, the VA would be a bastion of efficiency. Vets would get quick medical care and efficient mental health care.
If they did, the wounded warrior project would be unnecessary, we'd give each of those disabled soldiers a life of comfort and we'd treat them as heroes.
If they did, military families wouldn't have to rely on food stamps to survive.
If they did, the republicans wouldn't play politics with the 911 victims fund, that pays for healthcare for all the firefighers and police and volunteers that have proven cancers caused by the dust and smoke they were living in for months after 911.
If they did, they wouldn't have elected a jackass as president that was mean to a gold star family, an asshole to a war hero, and made jokes about dead american soldiers in Nigeria.

Tell me again how kneeling is disrespecting the troops?
The hypocrisy of some people, the shame.

[Sunstroke]

Why does the opinion of the kneelers outweigh those who feel insulted?

It might have something to do with the fact that the kneelers are part of a group that feels it is being persecuted...and shot, by police, and those who feel insulted are just not happy having to watch a black man protest.

If you "really"  see those two groups as equal:

Group 1: Please stop shooting us
Group 2: Please stop making us watch you kneel

...then I'm not sure the point will ever land home for ya...

[pondwater]

part of a group that feels it is being persecuted...and shot, by police

Feelings are facts for the left, hahaha.

[Spider-Dan]

Why are you concerned with my concerns?

I'm trying to make sense of the position you are advocating, which is the point of a discussion forum.

You claim you agree with Maine that protesting the anthem is one of the most American things one can do, but that your objecting are based on what employees are allowed to do at work.  Are you as vocal when players wear prohibited colors of shoes?  Because one of those things is controlled by the CBA, and the other is not.

Feelings are facts for the left, hahaha.

The entire reason kneeling during the anthem is a "scandal" is because the right feels the players are disrespecting the country.  Bunch of snowflakes, wouldn't you say?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Roughly the same percentage of people who are offended by the kneeling were offended by Rosa Parks sitting in a white section, black striking in Selma and King’s dream speech.  And for the same reason.

[Spider-Dan]

Which is why I have another part to my post you omitted that is in line with what you are saying.  Please don't partially quote me and distort my message.

I omitted that because it's not an issue of whether "statistics are skewed to fit a narrative," or whether the issue is bigger than, smaller than, or precisely sized for statistics.  We simply do not legislate this kind of policy based on percentages.

If you don't like using the War on Terror (which was just as much of a "world issue" in 2000 at it was in 2001, but a much larger American issue in the latter), use same-sex marriage.  No one looked at the number of gay people in the country and decided that based on their percentage of the population, we need to ban SSM.  We don't make murder laws based on how many murders happen; if we did, given the incredible decline in crime rates compared to 40 years ago, our prisons should be nearly empty instead of overflowing.

[pondwater]

I'm trying to make sense of the position you are advocating, which is the point of a discussion forum.

You claim you agree with Maine that protesting the anthem is one of the most American things one can do, but that your objecting are based on what employees are allowed to do at work.  Are you as vocal when players wear prohibited colors of shoes?  Because one of those things is controlled by the CBA, and the other is not.

Their job while at work is to play a child's game. They can do their hobbies on their time off.

The entire reason kneeling during the anthem is a "scandal" is because the right feels the players are disrespecting the country.  Bunch of snowflakes, wouldn't you say?

No, I wouldn't say. One is a symptom and one is the sickness. You have a group of people complaining about a group of people complaining. So I would say that the first group of complainers is the sickness and the second group of complainers is the symptom of the sickness. If the first group would STFU, the second group would STFU and we could all watch and enjoy our entertainment in peace. And if you want to watch the police shoot black people, watch the news. And if you want to watch black people shoot other black people, book a trip to Chicago or Baltimore.

[pondwater]

Roughly the same percentage of people who are offended by the kneeling were offended by Rosa Parks sitting in a white section, black striking in Selma and King’s dream speech.  And for the same reason.

Did you find that on Wikipedia or did you actually in real life pull it out of your ass?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Did you find that on Wikipedia or did you actually in real life pull it out of your ass?

Read it a couple a weeks ago in my local newspaper.

[pondwater]

Read it a couple a weeks ago in my local newspaper.

I'm not even sure how you could come up with a stat like that and be scientific and accurate. But then again, Trump Derangement Syndrome proves how accurate polls are, LMFAO.

[masterfins]

A couple of thoughts on this: First...you are correct. The "racist" tag often gets used when it probably doesn't fit. Second...there really are a lot of racists out there who aren't getting tagged with that label, and are in complete denial about actually being a racist.

Like with any topic, applying a touch of common sense is all it takes. Is the person who asked for a phone number guilty of sexual harrassment? No, of course not, unless he asked it in a reeeeeally creepy-ass way. That said, all of these Hollywood producers/Slimy politicians with the "sit on my lap and let's talk about that part/job you want..." They definitely deserve every bit of persecution they get.

I totally agree with what you are saying here.

[Spider-Dan]

Their job while at work is to play a child's game. They can do their hobbies on their time off.

Well, when you own an NFL team, you will be in a better position to critique what kind of actions are appropriate on and off the clock.  Based on the position you are taking, you must have no objection at all to, say, NYJ players kneeling after their CEO publicly supported their right to protest on the clock.

And ultimately, what you are talking about is a CBA issue.  If management wants to require players to stand, they should negotiate for it in the CBA (like the NBA has).  Simple.

No, I wouldn't say. One is a symptom and one is the sickness. You have a group of people complaining about a group of people complaining. So I would say that the first group of complainers is the sickness and the second group of complainers is the symptom of the sickness.

So your excuse is that... the left had feelings first?  That sounds more like you're calling both sides snowflakes.  Why don't you simply refuse to participate in the carousel of feelings that you so decry?  Gotta live up to your own ideals, man.

"Facts over feelings, unless you had feelings before I did" is not nearly as catchy of a slogan.

[Spider-Dan]

Did you find that on Wikipedia or did you actually in real life pull it out of your ass?

I'm not even sure how you could come up with a stat like that and be scientific and accurate.

It's strange to see you raise these objections as if you consider the statistics potentially meaningful.  Let's put that theory to the test:





So actually, Hoodie was wrong:  kneeling during the anthem is actually far more positively viewed in 2018 (43% approval) than Rosa Parks and similar protests were viewed in 1961 (22% approval).

[masterfins]

So actually, Hoodie was wrong:  kneeling during the anthem is actually far more positively viewed in 2018 (43% approval) than Rosa Parks and similar protests were viewed in 1961 (22% approval).

I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine that those polled on the kneeling issue was a much more diverse group of individuals, than those polled in 1961.  Or more plainly I don't think minorities were included as much in the 1961 poll.  That said I think the comparison is invalid, it's like trying to compare football, or any sports figures, from different era's.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, yes: the America of 2018 is much more diverse than the America of 1961, but that was baked into the premise when Hoodie compared the approval of kneeling today to the approval of protests during the civil rights movement.

Furthermore, the fact that MLK's protests were widely opposed at the time and yet are universally praised today as a triumph of the American spirit of equality and justice... this does not portend well for the opponents of today's protests, especially when the current protests already have far more contemporaneous approval.