Proper Anthem Conduct

[Dave Gray]

Yes, they should.  The owners have the right to disallow it.

However, if they do, they have to face the consequences of that action, including the action of players that feel that they aren't given a fair voice within the organization.  And of fans or groups or entire communities of people that might feel marginalized by that choice.

To edit: The owners should be allowed to disallow it, if it aligns with the collective bargaining agreement that both parties agreed to.

But given that, sure, owners can penalize for that or disallow it.  They just have to deal with the public consequences of that choice.

Why can't I get an answer to this question that I've asked three times now:

If you're unhappy with the kneeling, would you be OK if the NFL just didn't play the anthem anymore so that kneeling isn't an issue?

[Spider-Dan]

The people who are objecting to silent kneeling during the anthem will definitely not accept canceling the anthem performance altogether.

[Phishfan]

Spider is correct. If you think they are up in arms about kneeling, imagine the response to taking the anthem away. Just assume no one with that position would support no anthem due to lack of response.

[pondwater]

Whodathunkit, I'm with Spider at this point. Just keep the WHOLE team in the locker room during the Anthem and end this fucking mess.

[CF DolFan]

To edit: The owners should be allowed to disallow it, if it aligns with the collective bargaining agreement that both parties agreed to.

But given that, sure, owners can penalize for that or disallow it.  They just have to deal with the public consequences of that choice.

Why can't I get an answer to this question that I've asked three times now:

If you're unhappy with the kneeling, would you be OK if the NFL just didn't play the anthem anymore so that kneeling isn't an issue?

I answered you ....

I would not be happy. The anthem is played before almost all sports from High School on up. It's a moment to reflect on our freedom to do the things we are about to do. We've already lost so much respect for anything patriotic like the pledge and other portions of our history that it would severely upset me if they cancelled it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

CF, curious....what are those other portions of our history you are referring to?

[Tenshot13]

^This question is just like mah guns and mah baked potato....loaded

[CF DolFan]

^^^^ there are so many but I'm sure you are looking for one or two to attack so here goes. We no longer respect Confederates which is only brothers and sisters we disagreed with on certain issues. We don't respect the what it took for us to gain our freedom form England or the way we came in and led the way to winning two World Wars. We don't respect what the Jewish people went through under Hitler  and we don't respect the immigrants who came here and did it legally to build the country we are live in.

[Dave Gray]

I answered you ....

Thanks....appreciate it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^^ We no longer respect Confederates .

I had a feeling that was a dog whistle for the removal of confederate monuments, but rather than be accused of assuming.  There is a consistency in wanting to honor traitors of the USA who waged a war to defend slavery, with being offended by AA who protest police brutality.  The common thread is racism.  States right argument is bullshit it was about one and only one states right the right to own another human being.  Lee and McVeigh deserve the same level of respect, none at all both were murdeous traitors.

[CF DolFan]

I had a feeling that was a dog whistle for the removal of confederate monuments, but rather than be accused of assuming.  There is a consistency in wanting to honor traitors of the USA who waged a war to defend slavery, with being offended by AA who protest police brutality.  The common thread is racism.  States right argument is bullshit it was about one and only one states right the right to own another human being.  Lee and McVeigh deserve the same level of respect, none at all both were murdeous traitors.

You can't judge them by today's standards and any attempt in doing so will fail. General Lee was as well respected on the Union side as the Confederate. In reality the war was between brothers and family members and as such ... many people from the losing side went on to do some great things side by side with the same people they previously fought. I have pretty good ties to the Creek Indians but it has absolutely nothing to do with how I see this country. I have a friend who grew up on a reservation and Apache. He retired as a Navy Chief and is furious over anyone who doesn't think this country is worth respecting. He doesn't pass over what happened to his people but has accepted it as his history and embraces the great land we are in today.

It's the history of how we got to here and should not be forgotten. Already people are trying to forget Hitler and revision him as a much better person than he was.   He murdered over 6 million people of a race and tried to wipe them out. To compare him to anyone is a lack of understanding on how atrocious he and his people were.

[Fau Teixeira]

Already people are trying to forget Hitler and revision him as a much better person than he was.

no .. no they aren't.. just no

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

no .. no they aren't.. just no

Actually some are.  But most of the idiots who defend Hitler also showed up in Charlottesville to protest the removal of confederate monuments. 
*****
Nobody is saying forget our history.  But let’s stop honoring the bad guys.  Rather than memorials for those who fought for slavery replace them with monuments of those who died in bondage, those who perished in the middle passage, those who risk life and liberty as part of the Underground Railroad.   

[Fau Teixeira]

i would argue that those people didn't forget hitler, rather know exactly who he was and support his actions

[Spider-Dan]

You can't judge them by today's standards and any attempt in doing so will fail.

Apparently, you also cannot judge them by the standards of their own time.  Let's keep in mind that all these Confederate monuments went up in the early 20th century, nearly 50 years after the war was over.  The monument builders were judging the Confederates by the standard of their current day, not by the standards of the 1860s.

Again, it is always ironic to hear people insist that silently kneeling is an unconscionable act of disrespect to flag, military, and country... and then in the next breath, hear the same people defend those who actually KILLED US Army troops all because they preferred slavery over the Constitution and the Stars and Stripes.