Dallas police officer enters man's apartment and shoots him (split from anthem thread)

[Pappy13]

Murder.  Not only that, even if it was your car it is still murder.  You are not allowed to use deadly force just because someone might have stolen something and is now leaving your car.

Who said anyone was stealing something from my car? I never said I shot them because they were stealing something. In your version of the events there was a REASON for me to kill the person. I never said I had a reason to kill them. In fact I purposely avoided having any reason to kill them, because I NEVER intended to kill them. It was an accident. Pulling my gun and shooting them was pure reaction, not purposely done. I wasn't trying to stop them from stealing my car. I wasn't trying to stop them at all. I just reacted and pulled the gun and shot them without thinking. Yes I killed them, but it was NOT intentional. That's manslaughter, not murder. If that's not manslaughter than please explain to me what manslaughter is.

[Pappy13]

I thought her story was the door was ajar and she opened it and then saw a figure in the back and shot him. But the story has changed a few times? Or maybe just not reported correctly.

I'm not going by the story that was on the arrest warrant. I don't believe that story is the truth. I believe that story was concocted either by the defendant or by the police to try to make the shooting seem justifiable. I believe the story I gave is a more accurate depiction of what actually happened. The story I gave was initially given to the media but once the arrest warrant became public then it was quickly forgotten.

[Spider-Dan]

Since when does the arrest warrant determine what the truth is?

It doesn't!  But that's what HER story is (at least, right now).  Those events from the arrest warrant are what she said happened.

I'm not going by the story that was on the arrest warrant. I don't believe that story is the truth.

It's the story that SHE is claiming as the truth!

You are rejecting the words out of her own mouth... but instead of concluding that she's a liar who is concocting a story that is more favorable than what happened, you are somehow insisting that she is lying to make things look WORSE than they actually were!

I can't imagine a clearer example of the problem in this country, and why these anthem protests are needed.  A cop shoots an innocent, unarmed black man in his own home, and you are bending over backwards to interpret the situation as generously in her favor as possible... even ignoring what YOU AGREE are OBVIOUS LIES INTENDED TO COVER UP WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

[Spider-Dan]

In fact I purposely avoided having any reason to kill them, because I NEVER intended to kill them. It was an accident. Pulling my gun and shooting them was pure reaction, not purposely done. I wasn't trying to stop them from stealing my car. I wasn't trying to stop them at all. I just reacted and pulled the gun and shot them without thinking.

...this is insanity.

GUNS.
KILL.
PEOPLE.

You don't "accidentally" pull your gun and "not intend to kill" someone THAT YOU SHOT WITH YOUR GUN.  Choosing to shoot them is itself evidence that you intended for them to die.  That is what shooting someone entails.

If that's not manslaughter than please explain to me what manslaughter is.

You are illegally target shooting in your backyard and a ricochet kills a bystander.  That's manslaughter.
You're street racing, you t-bone cross traffic and kill someone.  That's manslaughter.
You're sliding down an upper deck guard rail at a stadium and fall on to someone below, who dies as a result of their injuries.  That's manslaughter.

None of those are intentionally pointing a weapon directly at a person and firing it.  That is not an "accident."  You intended to shoot them.

In this case, a manslaughter charge is not based on the premise that she didn't mean to shoot him; it's based on the premise that she believed she was legally defending her home from an intruder.  But that premise is ridiculous, because the idea that she thought she was in her home is laughable.  If a reasonable person would know that was not her apartment, it's murder, plain and simple.

[Dave Gray]

I don't see how this is manslaughter. 

Manslaughter is causing someone's death through a separate crime.
But what's the other crime?

If she accidentally shot and killed him, thinking it was her house, there is no crime, right?  She might be civilly liable.
But since I believe she went there to confront him and ended up shooting him.  The idea that she thought it was her house is bullshit.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I don't see how this is manslaughter. 

Manslaughter is causing someone's death through a separate crime.
But what's the other crime?

there are several constucts of manslaughter.  An unintentional death during a commission of a crime is one of them.

Others include negligent homocide, heat of passion. 

[Phishfan]

If she accidentally shot and killed him, thinking it was her house, there is no crime, right?  She might be civilly liable.

There could be a number of crimes

[Pappy13]

It doesn't!  But that's what HER story is (at least, right now).  Those events from the arrest warrant are what she said happened.
It's the story that SHE is claiming as the truth!

No, that's what the arrest warrant said she said. If she says "That's not what I said, the warrant is pure fabrication" unless they have evidence that's what she said (like a taped interview with her) it means nothing. Where is your source that she is claiming what's in the arrest warrant is the truth?

You are rejecting the words out of her own mouth... but instead of concluding that she's a liar who is concocting a story that is more favorable than what happened, you are somehow insisting that she is lying to make things look WORSE than they actually were!

No, it's you who is insisting that the arrest warrant is what she said. I don't know that. I haven't heard that she said that. When she comes out and says that everything in the arrest warrant was exactly 100% the way it happened then I will believe that. You are assuming that everything the arrest warrant says is exactly the way she told it to the police. I don't know that. I don't know how you know that. And no, I don't believe that's how it happened. If that's her story, then I don't believe it, but I don't know that's her story right now. That story does not make sense to me either. If I was on the jury and she told that story I wouldn't buy it, but I don't know that's what's going to happen.

[Pappy13]

Others include negligent homocide, heat of passion. 

This is essentially what I'm claiming, negligent homicide. That's manslaughter, not murder. I don't believe the story that is in the arrest warrant. I don't know if that's what her defense will be. It very well might be and in that case I would expect a guilty verdict to murder. If the story she tells is like the one I have suggested I would expect a guilty verdict to manslaughter, a lesser charge. Heck it might not even go to trial, she may just plead guilty to manslaughter. She could also be found innocent of all charges which seems like what the arrest warrant wants me to believe, but I don't.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This is essentially what I'm claiming, negligent homicide. That's manslaughter, not murder. I don't believe the story that is in the arrest warrant. I don't know if that's what her defense will be. It very well might be and in that case I would expect a guilty verdict to murder. If the story she tells is like the one I have suggested I would expect a guilty verdict to manslaughter, a lesser charge. She could also be found innocent of all charges which seems like what the arrest warrant wants me to believe, but I don't.

But she intended to kill. 

[Pappy13]

But she intended to kill. 

Just because you do kill doesn't mean you intended to kill. I'm pretty sure that even the arrest warrant doesn't claim she intended to kill him. The arrest warrant makes it sound like she is essentially confronting a burglar in her aparment and used deadly force because he was resisting. I don't buy that.

[Spider-Dan]

No, that's what the arrest warrant said she said.

If this is the game you're playing, on what basis are you forming any opinion at all on what happened?  She has issued no direct statement on this matter.

You are making words up and putting them in her mouth for her.  The idea that the police department is misquoting the witness statement OF A POLICE OFFICER is delusional, man.

[Phishfan]

Just because you do kill doesn't mean you intended to kill. I'm pretty sure that even the arrest warrant doesn't claim she intended to kill him. The arrest warrant makes it sound like she is essentially confronting a burglar in her aparment and used deadly force because he was resisting. I don't buy that.

Every time I heard a cop talking about shooting their gun they always say their training is to shoot to kill. They don't train for anything else.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Who said anyone was stealing something from my car? I never said I shot them because they were stealing something. In your version of the events there was a REASON for me to kill the person. I never said I had a reason to kill them. In fact I purposely avoided having any reason to kill them, because I NEVER intended to kill them. It was an accident. Pulling my gun and shooting them was pure reaction, not purposely done. I wasn't trying to stop them from stealing my car. I wasn't trying to stop them at all. I just reacted and pulled the gun and shot them without thinking. Yes I killed them, but it was NOT intentional. That's manslaughter, not murder. If that's not manslaughter than please explain to me what manslaughter is.

killing some one without a reason is murder.

[Pappy13]

You are making words up and putting them in her mouth for her.  The idea that the police department is misquoting the witness statement OF A POLICE OFFICER is delusional, man.

Not completely. This story came from somewhere. It's the original story I heard on the radio. I don't know the origin of the story. It all changed when the arrest warrant came out, but there were 2 disctinctly different stories in the beginning. So yes some of it is conjecture on my part, but when I heard the story originally it was that she was trying to enter the apartment when he opened the door from the inside and she shot him. I'm not sure where that story came from, but it seems the most likely to me. The story that she went in when the door was ajar and saw a man in the dark and gave him verbal commands that he ignored and then she shot him I heard later.  That story sounds like an attempt to justify the killing. The story I originally heard was not trying to justify her actions they were saying it was an accidental shooting.