Can you be a racist while rooting for a player of a different race?

[Spider-Dan]

CF, the Bible says it is sinful to turn away from the Lord and worship a false god. Have you accepted that there is nothing you can do about other people choosing to do this? What if you had the opportunity to vote on whether false gods (i.e. other religions) should be allowed in the US?  Would you vote to enact that ban?

There is a wide gap between "I think [thing] is a bad idea" and "I think the government should stop everyone from doing [thing]."

[pondwater]

CF, the Bible says it is sinful to turn away from the Lord and worship a false god. Have you accepted that there is nothing you can do about other people choosing to do this? What if you had the opportunity to vote on whether false gods (i.e. other religions) should be allowed in the US?  Would you vote to enact that ban?

There is a wide gap between "I think [thing] is a bad idea" and "I think the government should stop everyone from doing [thing]."

Correct, the government shouldn't stop gay people from getting married. However, they also shouldn't make or penalize Christian businesses for not participating in gay marriages, it works both ways. I still disagree on the military though. There is no right to serve in the military. 

[Fau Teixeira]

Correct, the government shouldn't stop gay people from getting married. However, they also shouldn't make or penalize Christian businesses for not participating in gay marriages, it works both ways. I still disagree on the military though. There is no right to serve in the military. 

There is no right to get a job in the military, but that doesn't mean that the military can discriminate willy nilly.

There is no such thing as a christian business, companies aren't people, they hold no beliefs, people do. The fact that we treat corporations as people is an abomination, and needs to stop. Christians can own business, just as jews can. That doesn't mean they can discriminate against people. There is no such thing as a gay wedding cake. There's a cake, period. It has no sexual preference.  Why is it that when it comes to cake, we attribute intent to the product and the suppliers, but when it comes to guns, we don't do the same. If we take the christian baker argument at face value, wouldn't the logical corollary be that if a baker is an active participant in a gay wedding, that a gun maker is an active participant in a mass shooting?

[pondwater]

There is no right to get a job in the military, but that doesn't mean that the military can discriminate willy nilly.

There is no such thing as a christian business, companies aren't people, they hold no beliefs, people do. The fact that we treat corporations as people is an abomination, and needs to stop. Christians can own business, just as jews can. That doesn't mean they can discriminate against people. There is no such thing as a gay wedding cake. There's a cake, period. It has no sexual preference.  Why is it that when it comes to cake, we attribute intent to the product and the suppliers, but when it comes to guns, we don't do the same. If we take the christian baker argument at face value, wouldn't the logical corollary be that if a baker is an active participant in a gay wedding, that a gun maker is an active participant in a mass shooting?

A cake is a cake? Maybe you should tell Walmart. A few years ago they refused to make Confederate Flag and Blue Lives Matter cakes. I didn't hear the left crying because rednecks and cops were being discriminating against. Custom made products are up to the vendor to decide if they want to do business. Can you force Burger King to make  a Big Mac? After all, a burger is a burger.

If I went to a custom guitar maker and told him the specs of a guitar I wanted him to make and he told me that he couldn't make it, I would simply just go somewhere else. Just like the gay cake couple could have.

[CF DolFan]

You seem to not be addressing the issue that we keep bringing up -- the legality of all of this.

If you believe that homosexuality is wrong, don't be gay.  Don't go to gay events.  Don't associate with gays.  Teach your kids about the dangers of gayness.

But you take it a step further to say homosexuality is wrong and these right should be denied.  I don't like what you're doing, therefore you shouldn't be able to do it.  That's where your argument falls apart.

I get what you're saying but that isn't how I see it. First off ... I've never voted on anything that has to do with being gay and outside of marriage, I'm not sure how that could be any different.  I realize it's a huge argument from the left but it's just not something on the mind of most Christians. It's like the argument of keeping abortion legal by using incest and rape as the excuse. Those are so minimal in the scheme of abortions performed that its pretty irreverent to the conversation as a whole. Obviously its relevant to those in the situation.

If I could think of anything to vote on it would be that people do not have to do anything that conflicts with their religion.  A baker should never be forced to bake a "gay" cake whether it's for a gay couple or a straight person trying to make a point. I don't think a Muslim bakery should have to make a Jesus cake if they felt it inappropriate. I do think you should serve them with whatever you serve your other customers.

i think the best argument for allowing gay marriages is that they have the same right to be as miserable as straight people. LOl ... honestly ... I don't think the average Christian is putting in much thought to the Supreme Court allowing marriage. It's the secular system in which we live.

CF, the Bible says it is sinful to turn away from the Lord and worship a false god. Have you accepted that there is nothing you can do about other people choosing to do this? What if you had the opportunity to vote on whether false gods (i.e. other religions) should be allowed in the US?  Would you vote to enact that ban?

There is a wide gap between "I think [thing] is a bad idea" and "I think the government should stop everyone from doing [thing]."

If you think a "false god" is a being, an entity or whatever you are foolishly mistaken. Anything that comes between you and God is a "false god". If you spend all your time on money following the Dolphins and God doesn't have a presence in your life then the Dolphins is your "false" god or idol.

With that said ... there is no way to outlaw false idols.

[CF DolFan]

There is no right to get a job in the military, but that doesn't mean that the military can discriminate willy nilly.

There is no such thing as a christian business, companies aren't people, they hold no beliefs, people do. The fact that we treat corporations as people is an abomination, and needs to stop. Christians can own business, just as jews can. That doesn't mean they can discriminate against people. There is no such thing as a gay wedding cake. There's a cake, period. It has no sexual preference.  Why is it that when it comes to cake, we attribute intent to the product and the suppliers, but when it comes to guns, we don't do the same. If we take the christian baker argument at face value, wouldn't the logical corollary be that if a baker is an active participant in a gay wedding, that a gun maker is an active participant in a mass shooting?

As the courts have ruled ... refusing to make a cake for gay people would be illegal. Refusing to bake a gay cake is completely protected.

[BuccaneerBrad]

There is no right to get a job in the military, but that doesn't mean that the military can discriminate willy nilly.

Sure they can.   Got a bad back?  Bad teeth?  Blind in one eye?  Need a ramp for your wheelchair?   Like to sleep in?   Recovering alcoholic/drug addict?  Hear voices of people who aren't there?  Have imaginary friends?  All of these can be reasons to disqualify you.  

The military has one purpose.... to fight and win wars.  The reasons I listed above as well as many other things are distractions.  The military won't put up with distractions

[Fau Teixeira]

A cake is a cake? Maybe you should tell Walmart. A few years ago they refused to make Confederate Flag and Blue Lives Matter cakes. I didn't hear the left crying because rednecks and cops were being discriminating against. Custom made products are up to the vendor to decide if they want to do business. Can you force Burger King to make  a Big Mac? After all, a burger is a burger.

If I went to a custom guitar maker and told him the specs of a guitar I wanted him to make and he told me that he couldn't make it, I would simply just go somewhere else. Just like the gay cake couple could have.

Your analogy is very poor. Is it intentionally misleading?

All your examples refer to the content of the product itself. The discrimination isn't about the content of the cake, it's about the refusal to sell a cake to a specific person based on their sexual orientation.

if a place makes wedding cakes, they should not be able to discriminate as to who they sell it to.  If a place doesn't make swastika cakes, no-one should force them to make one.

[Spider-Dan]

Correct, the government shouldn't stop gay people from getting married. However, they also shouldn't make or penalize Christian businesses for not participating in gay marriages, it works both ways.

Should the government force a baker to sell to black people?  How about an interracial couple planning a wedding?

The Jim Crow South proved that capitalism alone will not ensure equal treatment in the market, and that the economic incentives to discriminate can be just as strong as the incentives to serve everyone.  This is exactly why the Civil Rights Act was needed: in the absence of government compulsion to serve all of the public equally, persecuted classes become second-class citizens in areas with lower populations.

And so if we allow a Christian baker to refuse service to a gay couple, how can we stop a Christian hotel owner from refusing to allow a gay couple to rent a room in which they might have gay sex, or stop a Christian restaurant owner from refusing to allow a gay couple to eat a meal together in the full view of impressionable children, or a Christian landlord from refusing to rent to a gay couple who would expose an entire neighborhood to their depravity every single day?  Once you have decided to allow a business to refuse service to homosexuals, you can't keep other businesses from doing the same; bakers aren't more devout Christians than grocers or plumbers.

[Spider-Dan]

With that said ... there is no way to outlaw false idols.

Saudi Arabia would beg to differ.

Consider that there is an equally wide gap between "There is no way to outlaw alcohol" and "There is no way to prevent people from getting alcohol."

[pondwater]

if a place makes wedding cakes, they should not be able to discriminate as to who they sell it to.  If a place doesn't make swastika cakes, no-one should force them to make one.

That's not what you said earlier. You said a cake is a cake. Then by the same logic, there is no swastika cake. Just a cake, it has no preference. Sorry Fau, it's hard to take you serious when your hypocrisy and bias is so apparent. You can't have your cake and eat it too, LMAO.......

There is no such thing as a gay wedding cake. There's a cake, period. It has no sexual preference. 

[Sunstroke]

I myself disagree with it, just as I do divorce and even some of the things I do or have done but I associate with all and treat them equally.

You don't treat them equally... The fact that we're having a discussion about how you treat them means that you don't treat them equally.

[Fau Teixeira]

That's not what you said earlier. You said a cake is a cake. Then by the same logic, there is no swastika cake. Just a cake, it has no preference. Sorry Fau, it's hard to take you serious when your hypocrisy and bias is so apparent. You can't have your cake and eat it too, LMAO.......

i think now you're just trying to not understand. I refuse to believe you're as stupid as your posts indicate.
A cake is a cake, The cake has no intention. I never once said a baker shouldn't be allowed to bake a swastika cake. But if a baker makes them, then they cannot discriminate who they sell them to.  If they don't make them, then they are under no obligation to make one regardless of who asks for it. How is what i said in any way contradicting what i said before?

[Phishfan]

i think now you're just trying to not understand. I refuse to believe you're as stupid as your posts indicate.
A cake is a cake, The cake has no intention. I never once said a baker shouldn't be allowed to bake a swastika cake. But if a baker makes them, then they cannot discriminate who they sell them to.  If they don't make them, then they are under no obligation to make one regardless of who asks for it. How is what i said in any way contradicting what i said before?

I hate to jump to Ponds  defense but your example is flawed. A bakery does not make a cake with swastikas, can't make them. A bakery does not make a cake with a depiction of same sex couples, can't make them. It is the exact same premise and totally separate from the idea of not selling any cake to a gay couple.

[Dave Gray]

If you sell a cake that says "Happy Birthday", you should be forced to not discriminate who you sell it to based on class (race, gender, preference, disability).

But you shouldn't have to make a cake that says "Happy Gay Birthday".

Is anyone in disagreement with this basic idea?  It seems like people are largely arguing in circles with the same basic position.