Can you be a racist while rooting for a player of a different race?

[Phishfan]

If you sell a cake that says "Happy Birthday", you should be forced to not discriminate who you sell it to based on class (race, gender, preference, disability).

But you shouldn't have to make a cake that says "Happy Gay Birthday".

Is anyone in disagreement with this basic idea?  It seems like people are largely arguing in circles with the same basic position.

I read Fau as saying if you make hetero wedding cakes then homo wedding cakes should be required.

[Dave Gray]

A hetero cake and a homo cake are the same cake, no?

[Spider-Dan]

I hate to jump to Ponds  defense but your example is flawed. A bakery does not make a cake with swastikas, can't make them. A bakery does not make a cake with a depiction of same sex couples, can't make them. It is the exact same premise and totally separate from the idea of not selling any cake to a gay couple.

You are misrepresenting the issue.

A bakery would indeed be well within its rights not to make a cake depicting a same-sex couple (or a swastika, or Baphomet).  That isn't in question.  What is at question is whether a bakery may refuse to make any cake for a wedding that they oppose ideologically.  Gay couples have been refused service before any details of the cake itself have even been discussed.

[Fau Teixeira]

A hetero cake and a homo cake are the same cake, no?

exactly .. i don't see the difference.. it's got flour .. and icing .. and um.. some sort of generic color pattern that matches a wedding decor.. it's not like they're asking for "gay flour" or 'trans icing'  ..

[CF DolFan]

exactly .. i don't see the difference.. it's got flour .. and icing .. and um.. some sort of generic color pattern that matches a wedding decor.. it's not like they're asking for "gay flour" or 'trans icing'  ..

it comes down to the message of the cake which comes from the shape, as like a penis or the decorations, which can be words or props.

[Fau Teixeira]

"i won't bake you a giant penis cake" is not discrimination if they don't habitually bake penis cakes
"i won't bake you any cake, including a generic square cake if you use it in a gay wedding" is discrimination

[pondwater]

"i won't bake you a giant penis cake" is not discrimination if they don't habitually bake penis cakes
"i won't bake you any cake, including a generic square cake if you use it in a gay wedding" is discrimination

How does anyone know it would be in a gay wedding? How does anyone know if the customers are gay? Seems to me that if you just walk in and order and generic square cake, you'll probably get your generic square cake. But even if you don't, there are 20 more places that will make it for you.

[Phishfan]

A hetero cake and a homo cake are the same cake, no?

Wedding cakes usually have figures depicting the couple,  so no. I have never been part of a wedding with a generic square cake. Is that really a thing? No message depicting the occasion? At that point just make your own fucking cake and don't spend money on a baker because it isn't worth it to me.

[Phishfan]

You are misrepresenting the issue.

A bakery would indeed be well within its rights not to make a cake depicting a same-sex couple (or a swastika, or Baphomet).  That isn't in question.  What is at question is whether a bakery may refuse to make any cake for a wedding that they oppose ideologically.  Gay couples have been refused service before any details of the cake itself have even been discussed.

I am not misrepresenting at all. It is the exact issue we are discussing. I completely agree with the court ruling.

[Spider-Dan]

Fau's point was that if a bakery makes cakes, they should not be able to discriminate on who they sell these cakes to (which is not the same thing as discriminating on what kinds of cake they will make, a choice that we all agree they should have).

SCOTUS ruled that a baker may may indeed refuse to sell a cake to a gay couple, even if they are simply buying a cake off of the shelf.  Is this the ruling you "completely agree with"?

[Sunstroke]

I wonder how a baker can tell - with certainty - whether a customer is gay or not? I mean, unless two men start making out at the cash register, how would you really know?

[Tenshot13]

I wonder how a baker can tell - with certainty - whether a customer is gay or not? I mean, unless two men start making out at the cash register, how would you really know?

Gaydar

[CF DolFan]

SCOTUS ruled that a baker may may indeed refuse to sell a cake to a gay couple, even if they are simply buying a cake off of the shelf.  Is this the ruling you "completely agree with"?

That is incorrect. They ruled they can refuse to sell a cake they do not make such as a gay wedding cake that had two men on it or something on it that made it a gay cake ...  but they cannot refuse to sell them a cake that they would sell to a straight person. I don't think I know or heard of any Christians who disagree with this.

[Dave Gray]

I wonder how a baker can tell - with certainty - whether a customer is gay or not? I mean, unless two men start making out at the cash register, how would you really know?

I don't think it's unreasonable for two men to go a baker to pick out a wedding cake for their wedding to each other.  Straight people do it.  It would be a situation like that, I assume.

[Phishfan]

Fau's point was that if a bakery makes cakes, they should not be able to discriminate on who they sell these cakes to (which is not the same thing as discriminating on what kinds of cake they will make, a choice that we all agree they should have).

SCOTUS ruled that a baker may may indeed refuse to sell a cake to a gay couple, even if they are simply buying a cake off of the shelf.  Is this the ruling you "completely agree with"?

No they didn't