What makes a franchise quarterback?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Scott Zolak has a superbowl ring. Is he a better QB than Marino?

Scott Zolak does not have a superbowl ring.  Rohan Davey would be a better example.  Two superbowl rings.

[stinkfish]

Ugh. Patriots lost that superbowl to the Packers. Right.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Ugh. Patriots lost that superbowl to the Packers. Right.

That was my reaction at the time.  I have gotten over it. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

damon huard and dan marino are in business together, i wonder how much good natured jostling goes on between them about one of them having a ring and the other having a jacket.

[Phishfan]

I can't take most of this thread seriously.

[dolphins4life]

Damon Huard has two rings, I thought

It's interesting.  After Marino retired, the Dolphins choose to start Fiedler instead of Huard.

Was this the right decision?

Huard would not become a regular starter again until 2006.

This is the point of the thread.

Dolphins fans often talk about the next coming of Dan Marino.

But if the team made the playoffs in less than two thirds of the seasons he started, does that mean that those times were all that good?

People on this board often say Marino's teams often had to get past the loaded Buffalo Bills.

Tannehill had to get past the loaded Patriots, but in his seven years, they split with them five teams.  One year they didn't split, the Dolphins made the playoffs. (Granted in 2015, the Patriots foolishly chose to Tank the game).

[hordman]

I can't take most of this thread seriously.

This was the best answer

[Pappy13]

But if the team made the playoffs in less than two thirds of the seasons he started, does that mean that those times were all that good?

Nah, it just means that your whole premise that wins and losses are a direct result of QB play and nothing else is faulty. There's a bit of truth to the premise, but only a bit. Once you realize that and look at all the other factors that a real student of the game will do then it all makes perfect sense.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Nah, it just means that your whole premise that wins and losses are a direct result of QB play and nothing else is faulty. There's a bit of truth to the premise, but only a bit. Once you realize that and look at all the other factors that a real student of the game will do then it all makes perfect sense.

But QB play is definitely a factor. If you look at Marino's playoff games he only had one loss in which he had a good game 1994 vs SD, Marino had a good game and Dolphins defense let him down.  In every other Miami playoff loss Marino played poorly. 

[Pappy13]

But QB play is definitely a factor. If you look at Marino's playoff games he only had one loss in which he had a good game 1994 vs SD, Marino had a good game and Dolphins defense let him down.  In every other Miami playoff loss Marino played poorly.  

Can I have some of what you are smoking because it must be REALLY good. The avg points against in the playoff games that Miami lost with Marino at the helm was 34.5. Yeah REALLY stout defense by the Dolphins there. And what about the games that Miami won? Avg points against in those games was 15.75.

So it seems like when Miami would give up less then 20 they won, when giving up more than 30 they lost. Hmmm....well that doesn't seem to make any sense....wait a second that makes PERFECT sense. And let's see in those games how many did Marino NOT play well in? Zero. That's right everytime that Miami won 2 things happened. Marino played well and the defense did it's job. Everyone they lost either Marino didn't play well or the defense didn't play well or both. Usually both. Hmm....must just be coincidence that his numbers are bad when they are losing and he's putting the team on his back.

Wins:

WK   Game Date   Opp   Result   Comp   Att   Pct   Yds   Avg   TD   Int   Sck   Rate
18   29-Dec   SEA   W   31-10   21   34   61.8   262   7.7   3   2   0   90.6
19   6-Jan   PIT   W   45-28   21   32   65.6   421   13.2   4   1   0   135.4
18   4-Jan   CLE   W   24-21   25   45   55.6   238   5.3   1   1   0   68.6
18   5-Jan   KC   W   17-16   19   30   63.3   221   7.4   2   0   2   107.8
19   10-Jan   SD   W   31-0   17   29   58.6   167   5.8   3   0   0   109.4
18   31-Dec   KC   W   27-17   22   29   75.9   257   8.9   2   0   1   125.2
18   2-Jan   BUF   W   24-17   23   34   67.6   235   6.9   1   1   1   84.8
18   9-Jan   @ SEA   W   20-17   17   30   56.7   196   6.5   1   0   1   87.6

Losses:

WK   Game Date   Opp   Result   Comp   Att   Pct   Yds   Avg   TD   Int   Sck   Rate
18   31-Dec   SEA   L   20-27   15   25   60   193   7.7   2   2   0   77.6
20   20-Jan    @ SF   L   16-38   29   50   58   318   6.4   1   2   4   66.9
19   12-Jan   NE   L   14-31   20   48   41.7   248   5.2   2   2   1   54.9
19   12-Jan   @ BUF   L   34-44   23   49   46.9   323   6.6   3   2   0   72.1
20   17-Jan   BUF   L   10-29   22   45   48.9   268   6   1   2   4   56.5
19   8-Jan   @ SD   L   21-22   24   38   63.2   262   6.9   3   0   1   109.8
18   30-Dec   @ BUF   L   22-37   33   64   51.6   422   6.6   2   3   0   63.4
18   28-Dec   @ NE   L   3-17   17   43   39.5   141   3.3   0   2   4   29.3
19   9-Jan   @ DEN   L   3-38   26   37   70.3   243   6.6   0   2   1   65.5
19   15-Jan   @ JAC   L   7-62   11   25   44   95   3.8   1   2   2   34.6

Another thing I noticed. Marino was 7-3 at home 1-7 away. So when playing at home against a probably inferior team he was pretty good, but when playing away probably against a superior team he didn't fare so well. That's pretty much the exact same thing that you would expect from a guy like Brady as well the only difference is that Brady plays at home most of his playoff games, Marino didn't have that luxury.

[Pappy13]

Just some more fuel for the fire. If Marino wasn't one of the greatest of all time, why did everyone tune in to watch him go up against arguably one of the best defenses of all time?

https://www.reddit.com/r/miamidolphins/comments/dltmuk/dolphins_end_85_bears_undefeated_season_week_13/

Surprising that the Dolphins won that game despite Marino according to Hoodie. Marino was the only QB to beat that Defense that year. Luckily the Bears were without McMahon which probably prevented it from being the shootout that many expected, but Marino did his part.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^^Marino had an excellent game against the Bears defense, I give him the majority of the credit for that win.  But I also give him the much of the blame for the Dolphins not advancing to the superbowl for rematch.  He played poorly against a NE defense that wasn’t nearly as good as the bears.

Dolphins beating the Bears was a surprise, but not nearly as shocking as NE beating Mia.

As for why it was a highly watched game....you had two great teams.  One of which was undefeated.  This Monday nights game might break records for least watched.

Patriots-Giants was highly watched and that game was meaningless for playoff standings for both teams.  Giants had the 5 seed, NE had the 1.

[Pappy13]

But I also give him the much of the blame for the Dolphins not advancing to the superbowl for rematch.  He played poorly against a NE defense that wasn’t nearly as good as the bears.

Agreed, it was one of his worst career playoff games other then the Jax debacle which by that time Marino was a shell of his former self and not really even the focus of the offense anymore. And the NE game was not quite as bad as you imagine it. Marino did not play well but neither did anyone on the offensive side of the ball. I think they had like 6 turnovers in that Game Marino had 2 INT's but he also had 2 TD's. Clearly they didn't lose solely because of Marino, they lost because the team as a whole played poorly.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Agreed, it was one of his worst career playoff games other then the Jax debacle which by that time Marino was a shell of his former self and not really even the focus of the offense anymore. And the NE game was not quite as bad as you imagine it. Marino did not play well but neither did anyone on the offensive side of the ball. I think they had like 6 turnovers in that Game Marino had 2 INT's but he also had 2 TD's. Clearly they didn't lose solely because of Marino, they lost because the team as a whole played poorly.

Marino’s career passing rate is 86.4.  There is only one game where he played above his own average and the Dolphins lost anyway.  There is also only one game he played poorly and the team won despite of him. Like with Peyton, Dan was a better regular season QB than post season QB.  Montana and Brady on the other hand have less regular season records but often come up big in the post-season.   

[dolphins4life]

Marino’s career passing rate is 86.4.  There is only one game where he played above his own average and the Dolphins lost anyway.  There is also only one game he played poorly and the team won despite of him. Like with Peyton, Dan was a better regular season QB than post season QB.  Montana and Brady on the other hand have less regular season records but often come up big in the post-season.  

The difference is, for Brady at least, when he has a bad game, his teams often win anyway.  This is a luxury Marino never had.  

These numbers are since Seattle Super Bowl victory so they may need some updating.

Brady has a winning record in playoff games in which has thrown at least three interceptions (2-1).  

Brady has a winning record in playoff games in which he has thrown at least two interceptions (4-3).

Brady has a winning record in playoff games in which his quarterback rating has been below 80 (7-4).

Brady has a winning record in playoff games when his rating is below 70 (3-2)

Brady has an UNDEFEATED record in playoff games when his rating is below 60 (2-0)

Since then, Brady has had at least three more multi-interception playoff games and won 2 of them

When Marino had a multi-interception game in the playoffs his team was 1-8

When Brady had a multi-interception game in the playoffs, his team was 6-4

This is evidence of my old point that it is not fair to compare quarterbacks by Super Bowls.

Of course, it's also necessary to remember that Marino didn't play in the pass-happy NFL like it is now.

I guess it would be more accurate to say Brady's TEAMS often come up big for him in the playoffs.