Astros hammered in cheating scandal

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, I can certainly understand the Red Sox ownership (in 2020) being upset.  They had multiple recent titles before Cora arrived.  But the Astros had never won anything; this was their only title.

It's like if it turned out that the Cubs cheated to win in 2016.  Who in that organization would regret the decision?  Even if it means you throw the next 10 years in the trash, it's well worth it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have trouble believing ownership was completely unaware prior to being told by MLB of the investigation.  Whith the Apple watches, sure that only involved a small number of people, but if the whole team is involved word of what is happening will get to ownership.

[CF DolFan]

I have trouble believing ownership was completely unaware prior to being told by MLB of the investigation.  Whith the Apple watches, sure that only involved a small number of people, but if the whole team is involved word of what is happening will get to ownership.

It was more than a small amount. Weren't they banging trash cans to let the batters know the pitch coming? That means the whole team was involved.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It was more than a small amount. Weren't they banging trash cans to let the batters know the pitch coming? That means the whole team was involved.

Yes.  I can believe that ownership was not aware of the apple watch in advance.  But not the latest ones.

[EDGECRUSHER]

It was more than a small amount. Weren't they banging trash cans to let the batters know the pitch coming? That means the whole team was involved.

Yeah, everyone knew. Some weird stuff yesterday too when Michael Kay and I believe Ken Rosenthal went back to the ALCS game winning Hr by Altuve and he was yelling at his teammates to not rip his jersey. Could mean nothing, could mean he had some type of wire or sensor to let him know a breaking ball was coming. With everything that came out, no reason to do anything but assume the worst.

[Sunstroke]

I'm all for stripping titles away for this level of cheating...

[EDGECRUSHER]

I'm all for stripping titles away for this level of cheating...

I agree but MLB never would so I don't spend time getting angry over it. This won't be forgotten, their title is tainted and no one recognizes it anymore as legit. That's the best we are going to get.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

After all, it was a LIFETIME ban. 

Inaccurate.  It is a permanent ban.  Same as shoeless Joe.

[CF DolFan]

Inaccurate.  It is a permanent ban.  Same as shoeless Joe.

They can all be changed but need a commissioner with balls to do it. I really don't get the Shoeless Joe thing as there is question that he is even guilty.

As far as Rose ...Commissioner Bart Giamatti had stated at the time of Rose's ban that their agreement did not directly affect his Hall eligibility, he died before he could elaborate on the issue. Nevertheless, the Hall soon voted to formally exclude banned people from induction, a position that was endorsed by Giamatti's successor Fay Vincent. i honestly don't think anyone thought Rose would be out forever. I know for fans like me ... he will always be a HOfer regardless of the title. He was a beast on the field.

[MaineDolFan]

I'm all for stripping titles away for this level of cheating...

If you could prove , without a shadow of a doubt, the team won only due to cheating?  Sure, I'm on board.  Let's use Boston's 2018 run an an example, though -

The signal stealing only works at home.  Boston won a total of 108 games that season.

They were 57-24 at Fenway and 51-30 on the road.  Runs scored (5.50) and runs allowed (3.99) were almost identical, home / road splits. Pertaining to the playoffs, the Redsox beat the Yankees on the road to advance, the Astros on the road to advance and the Dodgers on the road to win.

This is not to defend or excuse; this is simply to state the obvious.  When speaking of a drastic measure such as stripping a franchise of a title you better be sure:

1:  The actions are the only reason they won
2:  No other teams participating were doing the same thing

Specifically related to the Red Sox and 2018, no one could beat them.  They had the best pitching and bullpen, along with a decent hitting team.  They were a steady team who did the same thing on the road as they did at home, they basically had the same results on the road.  They were not stealing signals in other ballparks.

Pertaining to other teams, this is going to end up exploding in MLB's face because this is the tip of the iceberg.  If anyone thinks the Red Sox and Astros are the only teams doing this?  Well, it's like thinking Barry Bonds was the only one using enhancements; it wasn't true then, it's not true now. 

If passion is removed and it can be proven, sure.  Remove the titles.   

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I'm all for stripping titles away for this level of cheating...

If you were to strip it from Astros who gets it?  Dodgers or Yankees.

[EDGECRUSHER]

If you were to strip it from Astros who gets it?  Dodgers or Yankees.

It would have to be vacated since the Athletics can then claim they should've won the division and yadda yadda yadda.

This is why it will never happen, nor will an asterisk.

[Spider-Dan]

When speaking of a drastic measure such as stripping a franchise of a title you better be sure:

1:  The actions are the only reason they won
2:  No other teams participating were doing the same thing

Without agreeing or disagreeing with this statement, I would just like to point out that taking that position is a choice by the league office.  For example, the NCAA vacates titles all the time without knowing 1) or 2).

MLB certainly has the ability to vacate titles for egregious cheating if they want to.  I think the more important factor is that powers that be - from the league office to the other owners - don't believe these particular offenses warrant doing so.

And that's why I've said that half of the teams in the league would love to switch places with the Astros right now.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Carlos Beltran has "stepped down" as manager of the Mets. Ownership apparently didn't think he could handle the NY media scrutiny and didn't want it following them around all season.

Carlos was seen as a big up and coming manager, but I don't think he will be managing anyone anytime soon.

This scandal is huge and there is probably a lot that MLB didn't even find out due to lack of evidence and witnesses. If I were a betting man, I would take the UNDER on Astros wins this season.

[EDGECRUSHER]

New reports coming out that Altuve and Bregman wore buzzers underneath their jerseys to signal to them what pitch was coming. A few photos show what could be a buzzer and we all probably saw by now Altuve telling his teammates not to touch his jersey after the ALCS Homerun. Trevor Bauer spoke up and said he heard rumors from several different sources about it.

Figures the pitchers wouldn't keep shut about this. If true, this has to be a year long suspension at the minimum. Awards and titles were won because of this shit.