Democrat candidates

[pondwater]

I'm pretty sure that if swastika-waving Nazis drive a car into a group of protesters and kill people, Bloomberg will not insist that "very good people were on both sides."

Unfortunately, context and the full transcript matters more than feelings and opinions. You know, there can be bad people and good people at rallies and protests, they are not mutually exclusive. This kind of twisting of the facts is precisely the reason that the Democrats can't be taken seriously and will probably lose to Trump again. And then subsequently proceed to go ape shit 2.0

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group.  But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.  You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did.  You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

"Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question:  Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."

[Tenshot13]

Boom, headshot.  Y'all have been on that tip about the good people on both sides thing and of course it was taken out of context. 

[CF DolFan]

Boom, headshot.  Y'all have been on that tip about the good people on both sides thing and of course it was taken out of context. 

Most of their big "aha" moments about Trump are just exaggerations of things taken out of context.

[Spider-Dan]

Such nuance!  There were many perfectly good people marching next to the people waving the swastika flags, and they didn't even have swastika flags or drive a car into a crowd of people!  Yet the biased fake news liberal media would have you believe that every conservative there was a neo-Nazi, when almost none of them call themselves "neo-Nazi"!  (Including the ones waving swastika flags)

Here's a crazy idea from a radical leftist: if you're marching with people waving swastika flags, everyone else marching with you seems to be cool with it, and your response is not "I need to GTFO of here immediately" but rather "This is acceptable," you're a Nazi-sympathetic dirtbag, not "very fine people."

But please, give me more of your valuable insight into the flaws of the Democratic field.

[pondwater]

Such nuance!  There were many perfectly good people marching next to the people waving the swastika flags, and they didn't even have swastika flags or drive a car into a crowd of people!  Yet the biased fake news liberal media would have you believe that every conservative there was a neo-Nazi, when almost none of them call themselves "neo-Nazi"!  (Including the ones waving swastika flags)

Here's a crazy idea from a radical leftist: if you're marching with people waving swastika flags, everyone else marching with you seems to be cool with it, and your response is not "I need to GTFO of here immediately" but rather "This is acceptable," you're a Nazi-sympathetic dirtbag, not "very fine people."

But please, give me more of your valuable insight into the flaws of the Democratic field.

I guess the same holds true when some misguided wingnut liberals are protesting alongside the terrorist organization ANTIFA who are hitting people with bats and bricks. I guess according to your theory, they're all domestic terrorists. You're logic is silly and ridiculous.

[Cathal]

pondwater, I don't think you can look at those quotes alone, without looking at when things were said. His initial comments were going after "this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides", where he repeatedly said "many sides". This initially creates a false equivalency on how the neo nazi's are being compared to the other side. Somehow saying both sides are acting the same, which is obviously not the case.

His aides tried to get him to put out another speech because of his obvious blunder in the previous address. He later came out with another speech saying "Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups". If you believe the Bob Woodward book, you'll see that Trump thought it was a mistake to put out a speech like that.

The next day, he said "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis or the white nationalists because they should be condemned totally". But, in the next sentence or so he said "there’s blame on both sides . . . very fine people on both sides.".

So, it isn't just what he said, it's when he said it, what he thought of what he said, and who forced him to finally say things.

[Spider-Dan]

I guess the same holds true when some misguided wingnut liberals are protesting alongside the terrorist organization ANTIFA who are hitting people with bats and bricks.

Another innovation of the Trump wing: we can no longer universally agree that Nazis are bad.  Instead, it's a partisan political negotiation, where in order for you to condemn Nazis, first I have to condemn Antifa or BLM or some other left wing group that, you know, HASN'T killed millions.

I'd feel pretty ridiculous if I saw the need to defend people waving ISIS flags by saying, "But what about abortion clinic bombers?" ISIS is bad, and anyone who marches with people waving ISIS flags is an idiot or a dirtbag. This doesn't require a "but what about" disclaimer.

But just to be clear: if Mike Bloomberg were president, I would not need to do the same tap dancing that you are doing right now (and that conservatives have been doing since Trump's election), trying to thread some sort of needle about how not everyone marching next to the people waving swastika flags were themselves Nazis, or Well yeah, Nazis are bad, but what about the New Black Panther Party? I am confident that a President Bloomberg (or any other Democrat) would not feel the need to be Fair And Balanced when discussing the people marching next to swastika-flag-waving Nazis.

[pondwater]

Another innovation of the Trump wing: we can no longer universally agree that Nazis are bad.  Instead, it's a partisan political negotiation, where in order for you to condemn Nazis, first I have to condemn Antifa or BLM or some other left wing group that, you know, HASN'T killed millions.

You are aware that the "Nazis" that killed millions don't exist anymore? The assholes you call "Nazis" are really just a sick misguided small fringe group. Kind of like the sick misguided "ANTIFA" assholes that go around beating people with bats and bricks. There are extreme groups on the right and the left. I'll be the first to denounce both of them. But let's be clear, there are good and bad people on both sides. What you seem to be doing is stereotyping everyone that doesn't agree with your agenda while giving a pass to the jackass idiots on your team. You seem to not have character or integrity in that regard.

[Spider-Dan]

Sorry, but when this "sick misguided small fringe group" has a rally with:

- hundreds of participants carrying torches while shouting "Jews will not replace us"
- armed partisans congregating in front of a Jewish synagogue
- a car being willfully driven at high speed into a crowd of protesters, injuring many and killing a young woman
- our head of state downplaying the significance of this event while insisting that there were good and bad people on both sides

...your "This is nothing" schtick doesn't work.

Furthermore, it is telling that you still refuse to simply condemn Nazis.  We've gone from "Well not all of them were Nazis" to "But what about Antifa?" to "There really aren't even that many Nazis so far."  Why is it so hard for the American right to simply say that "Nazis are disgusting and their ideology of hatred should be unequivocally rejected in our society"?  When your guys are flying the literal flag of Nazi Germany at political rallies, perhaps the time for dismissing the significance of Nazi influence on the right has passed.

I really don't even understand why you're arguing this point.  You're trying to make excuses for Trump when the reason I brought him up is to show that he's worse than the worst "Democrat" on the stage.  Are you saying that if the New Black Panther Party were to hold a rally in which one of them intentionally killed an unarmed woman and injured dozens of others, President Bloomberg would insist that both sides were to blame?  That's too absurd to even be worth discussing.

[Tenshot13]

Sorry, but when this "sick misguided small fringe group" has a rally with:

- hundreds of participants carrying torches while shouting "Jews will not replace us"
- armed partisans congregating in front of a Jewish synagogue
- a car being willfully driven at high speed into a crowd of protesters, injuring many and killing a young woman
- our head of state downplaying the significance of this event while insisting that there were good and bad people on both sides

...your "This is nothing" schtick doesn't work.

Furthermore, it is telling that you still refuse to simply condemn Nazis.  We've gone from "Well not all of them were Nazis" to "But what about Antifa?" to "There really aren't even that many Nazis so far."  Why is it so hard for the American right to simply say that "Nazis are disgusting and their ideology of hatred should be unequivocally rejected in our society"?  When your guys are flying the literal flag of Nazi Germany at political rallies, perhaps the time for dismissing the significance of Nazi influence on the right has passed.

I really don't even understand why you're arguing this point.  You're trying to make excuses for Trump when the reason I brought him up is to show that he's worse than the worst "Democrat" on the stage.  Are you saying that if the New Black Panther Party were to hold a rally in which one of them intentionally killed an unarmed woman and injured dozens of others, President Bloomberg would insist that both sides were to blame?  That's too absurd to even be worth discussing.

Nazis are disgusting and their ideology of hatred should be unequivocally rejected in our society.  They are responsible for the deaths of 11 million people.  Neo-Nazis are disgusting too.

Antifa, and in turn communism because that's what the majority of that fringe group believes, are disgusting and their ideology of hatred of anything right of far-left should be unequivocally rejected in our society.  Communism's death toll dwarfs that of fascism, and should be treated the same, if not worse.

[Dolphster]

Lol ... You live in a miserable world don't you? I had no idea you only vote for your "perfect" role models.  I've already explained most of us didn't vote for "Trump the man" and Dolphster backed me up. Trump has my back as far as I'm concerned because he is supporting my agenda. As a God fearing Christian I'm not going to look to my pastor if I need military action.

I did back you up on your reasoning for voting Trump.  I probably should add just for context that I am a Libertarian at heart.  And I don't fit neatly into any specific category politically.  I have pretty much always been conservative on fiscal matters and foreign policy, but liberal on a lot of social issues.  For instance, I am pro business, somewhat hawkish on foreign policy (although I don't believe in getting into foreign conflicts that don't gain us anything), and hate our federal tax system like poison because I work for a federal law enforcement agency and every gov't entity wastes money like you would not believe  If they spent our money wisely, every single one of us would be paying at least 20% less in federal taxes.  However, having said that, I am an atheist, pro abortion, pro gay marriage, etc.  And in all honesty, the main reason I voted for Trump (and probably will again) is totally selfish.  I knew he would be very pro business and his approach would be great for the economy and the stock market.  I'm about 5 years away from an early retirement and the booming stock market is a big part of why that is possible.  My personal financial situation has boomed over the last four years and although it is admittedly selfish, I am not going to bite the hand that has been feeding me very well for the past 4 years. 

[CF DolFan]

I did back you up on your reasoning for voting Trump.  I probably should add just for context that I am a Libertarian at heart.  And I don't fit neatly into any specific category politically.  I have pretty much always been conservative on fiscal matters and foreign policy, but liberal on a lot of social issues.  For instance, I am pro business, somewhat hawkish on foreign policy (although I don't believe in getting into foreign conflicts that don't gain us anything), and hate our federal tax system like poison because I work for a federal law enforcement agency and every gov't entity wastes money like you would not believe  If they spent our money wisely, every single one of us would be paying at least 20% less in federal taxes.  However, having said that, I am an atheist, pro abortion, pro gay marriage, etc.  And in all honesty, the main reason I voted for Trump (and probably will again) is totally selfish.  I knew he would be very pro business and his approach would be great for the economy and the stock market.  I'm about 5 years away from an early retirement and the booming stock market is a big part of why that is possible.  My personal financial situation has boomed over the last four years and although it is admittedly selfish, I am not going to bite the hand that has been feeding me very well for the past 4 years.  

Only supporting more of what I had previously stated. You and I have many different views on things but voted for the same person and neither of us voted for "the man" himself.  Regardless of your social views ... you are a racist, sexist, homophobe to many on the left because you voted for him. LOL ... I follow a gay black man who supports Trump (more than I do) and he is called those same names so it's really hard for me to get bothered by it.

[Fau Teixeira]

Only supporting more of what I had previously stated. You and I have many different views on things but voted for the same person and neither of us voted for "the man" himself.  Regardless of your social views ... you are a racist, sexist, homophobe to many on the left because you voted for him. LOL ... I follow a gay black man who supports Trump (more than I do) and he is called those same names so it's really hard for me to get bothered by it.

I don't know how much you can blame everyone that votes for and supports Trump. Some of them yes are going into it with eyes wide open. Others are victims for lack of a better word of Fox news propaganda. If that's the only channel you listen to and if you only listen to right wing talk radio, you'd be under the false impression that  Trump is the best president in the history of the country and that he's being unfairly prosecuted by a bunch of evil democrats that made everything up and are just out to get him because he's so good to everyone that it's making them look bad.

And that hillary is raping kids in the basement of a pizza shop.

[Tenshot13]

And that hillary is raping kids in the basement of a pizza shop.

Maybe, they hung out with Epstein on the lolita express enough to not rule it out, lol.

[Spider-Dan]

Antifa, and in turn communism because that's what the majority of that fringe group believes, are disgusting and their ideology of hatred of anything right of far-left should be unequivocally rejected in our society.  Communism's death toll dwarfs that of fascism, and should be treated the same, if not worse.

Let's skip past another round of "But what about Antifa/BLM/Occupy Wall Street?" and get to the point: I am 100% certain that, immediately following a rally in which an Antifa supporter drives into a crowd of pedestrians and kills a woman, no candidate on that stage would be talking about how there are "very fine people on both sides."

So I won't be forced into the unfortunate position you're in now, trying to argue that Antifa is technically worse than the Third Reich, all because the morally bankrupt clown in the White House feels compelled to stay Fair and Balanced when talking about his most overtly racist supporters.  Which is itself weird, because you guys insist over and over again that you don't look to Trump for moral leadership, yet instead of morally cutting him loose and strictly sticking to policy, you still reflexively defend him on stuff like this that has nothing to do with policy.