Democrat candidates

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know, getting shadily shafted by your party TWICE when you probably have the best shot at the presidency in your party is pretty pathetic.

Tell me more about why you think the candidate you guys regularly call a communist has the "best shot at the presidency."
Your trolling is not at all convincing.

And, for the record: Bernie is not a Democrat, as he will remind you any time he's not running for President.  If you want to know why he has problems getting the most votes in a Democratic primary, that's a big reason: he and his surrogates bash the Democratic Party at every opportunity.  Now, maybe that could work in a general election.  But the voters in a Democratic primary are almost entirely Democrats, and this whole "both the Democrats and the Republicans are the problem" schtick doesn't really fly as well with people who see the Republicans as a dire threat and the Democrats as the only people doing anything at all to stop them.

[BuccaneerBrad]

Today has been a slugfest.   Biden did a bit better than Sanders, but Sanders took key states out west.   The race will come down to these two.   Everyone else may as well pack up and go home.

[pondwater]

Biden has dementia or mental issue of some type going on. Something wrong with that dude...

[BuccaneerBrad]

Looks like Bloomberg took my advice and dropped out of the race.   Good.   It's bad enough he took large sodas and guns away from New Yorkers.   I don't want him doing that to the rest of the country.

[Spider-Dan]

The exit polls from yesterday are showing the same lesson from 2004: when progressives sit out and the Republican wins, voters don't respond by moving to the left.  They respond by moving to the center, because they're scared of losing to the right again.

If liberals want a strong progressive nominee, we don't get there by sitting out and hoping the center-left loses to the GOP.  We get there by helping the Hillary Clintons and Joe Bidens win, and then push their successors to the left (which is what happened after Obama: Hillary ran on the most progressive general election platform in the history of the Democratic Party, and if Biden wins, his platform will almost certainly be to her right).

The alternative is to sit home in November, let George W. Bush or Donald Trump win reelection and burn the entire country down to the ground (again), take control of the ashes and have just enough time to rebuild almost to where we were 16 years prior.  In 2000 we didn't have Citizens United, gerrymandering hadn't been reaffirmed, and the Voting Rights Act hadn't been gutted; none of those things happen if Al Gore is in the White House in January 2001.

So when liberal voters from Florida start talking about how they're going to sit out in November if their guy doesn't win the primary... I get slightly annoyed.  If 500 liberal voters in Florida cared just a little bit more about the electoral process, the last 20 years would be almost indescribably improved.  Hell, we might already have single-payer.

[Fau Teixeira]

So when liberal voters from Florida start talking about how they're going to sit out in November if their guy doesn't win the primary... I get slightly annoyed.  If 500 liberal voters in Florida cared just a little bit more about the electoral process, the last 20 years would be almost indescribably improved.  Hell, we might already have single-payer.

That might be what happens again. .. if Biden wins the nomination and runs to the middle, he'll cause a slew of Bernie supporters to sit at home or write in, or vote 3rd party (see Jill Stein). That's just the reality of the situation. The republicans have a unifying cause .. whether they liked Trump or  didn't on lots of topics, they held their noses and voted for him because of the "courts" .. if you don't give the left a cause that's better than "trump is bad" .. don't be surprised to see the idealistic left call Biden "blue Trump" and abandon the democratic party for this election.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

That might be what happens again. .. if Biden wins the nomination and runs to the middle, he'll cause a slew of Bernie supporters to sit at home or write in, or vote 3rd party (see Jill Stein). That's just the reality of the situation. The republicans have a unifying cause .. whether they liked Trump or  didn't on lots of topics, they held their noses and voted for him because of the "courts" .. if you don't give the left a cause that's better than "trump is bad" .. don't be surprised to see the idealistic left call Biden "blue Trump" and abandon the democratic party for this election.

Anyone who considers Biden "blue Trump" is an absolute moron.  Biden is "white Obama" not "blue Trump"

[Tenshot13]

Anyone who considers Biden "blue Trump" is an absolute moron.  Biden is "white Obama" not "blue Trump"

You're both wrong, he's "silver alert".

[Spider-Dan]

That might be what happens again. .. if Biden wins the nomination and runs to the middle, he'll cause a slew of Bernie supporters to sit at home or write in, or vote 3rd party (see Jill Stein). That's just the reality of the situation.

If so, these people are not winnable voters.  They should be ignored and the Democratic Party should work to win over other voters that will actually vote.  When progressives decide that their best move in November is to stay home (or vote for John Legend), don't be surprised if the Democratic Party spends more effort chasing the votes of suburban wine moms who regularly turn out at the polls.

The entire governing strategy that Bernie is offering is that his presence will cause an overwhelming flood of voters to rise up and participate in the electoral process; a flood that even Mitch McConnell cannot resist.  And yet turnout among younger voters is down from 2016.  Relying on the youth vote as an electoral strategy CANNOT work, not least because the youth vote 10 years from now is in elementary school today.

[Spider-Dan]

Anyone who considers Biden "blue Trump" is an absolute moron.  Biden is "white Obama" not "blue Trump"

"Blue Trump" would be a combination of

- Biden's declining faculties and propensity for self-aggrandizing lies
- Bloomberg's casual matter-of-fact racism and overt misogyny
- Bernie's aggrieved savior complex and cult of toxic surrogates

...all merged and dialed up to 11.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The entire governing strategy that Bernie is offering is that his presence will cause an overwhelming flood of voters to rise up and participate in the electoral process; a flood that even Mitch McConnell cannot resist. 

The other problem with this theory is it isn't happening in the primary.  The Bernie 2020 campaign lacks the energy and excitement of the Bernie 2016 campaign.  Bernie 2020 is pretty blah...Bernie 2016 had excitement the kinda of buzz that Obama 08, Clinton 08, Dean 04, Jackson '84 or '88 generated.  This year I don't get that sense of excitement. 

[Phishfan]

That might be what happens again. .. if Biden wins the nomination and runs to the middle, he'll cause a slew of Bernie supporters to sit at home or write in, or vote 3rd party (see Jill Stein). That's just the reality of the situation. The republicans have a unifying cause .. whether they liked Trump or  didn't on lots of topics, they held their noses and voted for him because of the "courts" .. if you don't give the left a cause that's better than "trump is bad" .. don't be surprised to see the idealistic left call Biden "blue Trump" and abandon the democratic party for this election.

They had the cause, it was the courts. Sitting out this will cost RBG's seat so suck it up and remember we need to vote against Trump.

[Spider-Dan]

The right understands the importance of the courts.  The left does not.

If Al Gore wins Florida in 2000, we never get the Citizens United ruling saying that unlimited money can be spent on an election.  We never get the Shelby County ruling gutting the Voting Rights Act and paving the way for mass voter disenfranchisement.  We never get the Rucho ruling saying that partisan gerrymandering cannot be adjudicated by federal courts.  These all have a massive effect on what kind of politicians can win today, and what kind of laws can get passed in Congress.

If you don't like your choices today, staying home or voting third-party just ensures that your choices in the future are worse.

[Dave Gray]

^ You won't get an argument from me on any of that.



I'm not going to stay home.  The only one I think I couldn't have voted for was Bloomberg, but that's because I think he was a Republican anyway and that's just what the party would become.

To answer your question before if I'd be OK if they picked Bernie if it were close, but Biden had the delegate lead: probably not.  If the effort is to try to capture the will of the electorate, I'm much more OK with it.  But I don't want them to craft their own candidate.  The DNC doesn't want Bernie -- that's obvious.  So, if they take steps to make that happen (like encouraging candidates to drop out at the right time) and then they also pick the candidate with fewer votes, that would rub me wrong.

If Biden had a big surge and won all the late states and had the momentum, but slightly fewer votes, maybe I could be OK with it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is a two person race now.  Very unlikely one or the other does wrap this up by then of April with a clear majority.