WSJ--The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

[Dolphster]

The underlying theme of the article you linked, in case you didn't catch it, Is that he's saying that black people are by nature more violent and prone to criminality than white people.

That is an interesting take.  I actually went back and re-read the article trying to look at it with the underlying theme that you posed.  I can see where you would think that.  And I want to go on record as stating that if that was the hidden agenda of the author, then I reject the article.  But honestly, I just don't see that as being the underlying theme of the article (although again, I can see where you might draw that conclusion).   I really think that the underlying theme is essentially just what the title of the article insinuates, that calling police racism "systemic" is incorrect.  As I have tried to make clear in my other posts under this topic, in no way am I saying that there aren't racist cops.  There most definitely are.  In full disclosure, my career has been local law enforcement (worked for the City of Miami early in my career), military, and my current position in federal law enforcement.  That may create some pro law enforcement bias in me although I do my very best not to let that happen.  But unfortunately, bad news gets publicized and good news is rarely publicized.  Throughout my career I have seen what can be described as absolutely racist attitudes and racist actions and just "bad cops" in general.  However, I have seen an immensely larger proportion of police actions that have shown genuine care for people, humanity, empathy, and good deeds done for people.  

[Spider-Dan]

Why hasn't anyone ever thought to mention "black on black crime" before as a justification for all this police brutality?  This is a game changer.

This was my favorite part of the article:

"The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015."

Now, I'm trying to square these figures with the frequently mentioned demographic percentages elsewhere in this piece.  Why are unarmed black people such a disproportionately high percentage of unarmed people killed by police?  Were they committing more unarmed robberies or unarmed homicides?  In 2015, when more unarmed black people were killed by police than unarmed white people, did that mean that racist police brutality was a problem then?

[CF DolFan]

According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. What percentage does that make up? I'm pretty sure there are a hell of a lot less police than black or white in this country.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. What percentage does that make up? I'm pretty sure there are a hell of a lot less police than black or white in this country.

Included in those totals are heart attacks, cancer that might be 9/11 related, automobile crashes, being shot by other cops, and training accidents. 

But the number of cops that died is irreversible to the question of is it excusable for a police officer to murder someone in cold blood and not be immediately arrested as is frequently the case. 

In any one of the incidents where an officer was killed and the killer was known was the killer allowed to leave the scene? 

[CF DolFan]

Included in those totals are heart attacks, cancer that might be 9/11 related, automobile crashes, being shot by other cops, and training accidents. 

But the number of cops that died is irreversible to the question of is it excusable for a police officer to murder someone in cold blood and not be immediately arrested as is frequently the case. 

In any one of the incidents where an officer was killed and the killer was known was the killer allowed to leave the scene? 

It literally says "89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019".

No, it it never ok for a police officer to kill or even harm someone without cause.

[Fau Teixeira]

That is an interesting take.  I actually went back and re-read the article trying to look at it with the underlying theme that you posed.  I can see where you would think that.  And I want to go on record as stating that if that was the hidden agenda of the author, then I reject the article.  But honestly, I just don't see that as being the underlying theme of the article (although again, I can see where you might draw that conclusion).   I really think that the underlying theme is essentially just what the title of the article insinuates, that calling police racism "systemic" is incorrect.  As I have tried to make clear in my other posts under this topic, in no way am I saying that there aren't racist cops.  There most definitely are.  In full disclosure, my career has been local law enforcement (worked for the City of Miami early in my career), military, and my current position in federal law enforcement.  That may create some pro law enforcement bias in me although I do my very best not to let that happen.  But unfortunately, bad news gets publicized and good news is rarely publicized.  Throughout my career I have seen what can be described as absolutely racist attitudes and racist actions and just "bad cops" in general.  However, I have seen an immensely larger proportion of police actions that have shown genuine care for people, humanity, empathy, and good deeds done for people.  

Also as you may or may not be aware, modern policing and tactics such as curfew are directly descended from slave patrols of the southern states pre-civil war:

https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/

Saying that there is systemic racism as part of overall policing is also accurate historically.

The birth and development of the American police can be traced to a multitude of historical, legal and political-economic conditions. The institution of slavery and the control of minorities, however, were two of the more formidable historic features of American society shaping early policing. Slave patrols and Night Watches, which later became modern police departments, were both designed to control the behaviors of minorities. For example, New England settlers appointed Indian Constables to police Native Americans (National Constable Association, 1995), the St. Louis police were founded to protect residents from Native Americans in that frontier city, and many southern police departments began as slave patrols. In 1704, the colony of Carolina developed the nation's first slave patrol. Slave patrols helped to maintain the economic order and to assist the wealthy landowners in recovering and punishing slaves who essentially were considered property.

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

[CF DolFan]

Just want to throw this out there because I think this may actually help.  I'm not a big Dak fan but this seems pretty cool to me.  Seems much more effective to pay for education and training where it will have an actual impact vs giving millions to bail out looters and rioters which won’t help anything but the looters and rioters. It's also not divisive.


Dallas Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott just pledged $1 MILLION "to improve our police training and address systematic racism through education and advocacy."

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/03/dak-prescott-1-million-police-training-racism-dallas-cowboys-nfl/

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

No, it it never ok for a police officer to kill or even harm someone without cause.

That is a given.  But misses the point.  The issue is was Derek Chauvin actions wrong?  It goes beyond that....to why wasn’t he arrested at the scene?  Why wasn’t his accomplices charged until today?  Why was he charged with 3rd instead of 2nd degree murder? 

But here is what we learned....rioting works.  It is the only thing that works.  If it wasn’t for the rioting all four would have taken an early retirement and collected their pensions with no actual consequences.

[Tenshot13]

That is a given.  But misses the point.  The issue is was Derek Chauvin actions wrong?  It goes beyond that....to why wasn’t he arrested at the scene?  Why wasn’t his accomplices charged until today?  Why was he charged with 3rd instead of 2nd degree murder? 

But here is what we learned....rioting works.  It is the only thing that works.  If it wasn’t for the rioting all four would have taken an early retirement and collected their pensions with no actual consequences.

Rioting works?  You're condoning this?

[Dave Gray]

Rioting works? 

Yes.

You're condoning this?

No.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Rioting works?  Yup!


 You're condoning this? Nope.

Understand why after 400 years of systematic racism and multiple attemps to change the system peacefully one would feel this is the only redress?  Yup!

[Dolphster]

Also as you may or may not be aware, modern policing and tactics such as curfew are directly descended from slave patrols of the southern states pre-civil war:

https://lawenforcementmuseum.org/2019/07/10/slave-patrols-an-early-form-of-american-policing/

Saying that there is systemic racism as part of overall policing is also accurate historically.
https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

Very interesting about the slave patrols.  I knew they existed but I didn't know they utilized curfews.  But regardless of what it was rooted in, the concept of a curfew during urban unrest benefits most of the people involved (not so much the businesses that are affected).   As long as curfews are utilized judiciously and with forethought.  Although looting, etc. happens during the daytime, it is much more prevalent at night under the cover of darkness.  In the current situation, curfews are being utilized to help protect businesses AND peaceful protesters who can get caught up as collateral damage when looting is going on.  I would not be okay with curfews being utilized long term.  But on a very short term basis, a curfew is protecting peaceful demonstrators and business interests.  I absolutely support the right of people to peacefully demonstrate and they should be given that opportunity.  But I also support the idea of "smart" usage of curfews. American Common Law is mostly based on the concepts of centuries old English law.  Quite a few of those legal precursors were onerous.  But where a law is derived from doesn't automatically negate it from being legit and wise when updated for current times.  I'm an atheist and find many parts of the bible to be appalling.  But that doesn't mean that there aren't some good moral lessons to be found in it as well. 

I agree with part of your comment about racism in "overall policing" as being historically accurate.  Historically, the overall concept and application of policing procedures have absolutely been racist.  I'm right there with you on that and it is pretty well documented.  Written and unwritten police policy in the deep south was disgustingly racist during the Civil Rights movement and was also prevalent before and after the Civil Rights movement.  The movie Mississippi Burning was a very accurate and deeply troubling portrayal of that.  And I'm sure that in some very small backwards assed community police departments, it still exists systemically.  But today, in police departments of any size at all, there is SO much oversight to prevent systemic racism and "bad policing" in general.  Most departments have some form of civilian community oversight committees comprised not of local politicians, but local residents.  The concept of Community Policing has been around for over 30 years and is taken very seriously and the main driver behind Community Policing is to avoid racism and other systemic atrocities.  And contrary to popular belief, Internal Affairs divisions (IFDs) are not looking find a way to get officers "off the hook" for wrongdoing.  Quite the opposite.  The overarching goal of an IFD is to protect the department and the city from litigation stemming from "dirty" or "bad" cops.  The vast majority of cops are scared shitless of Internal Affairs.  I want to make it clear that I'm not saying there aren't racist cops.  There most certainly are.  And law enforcement agencies were absolutely guilty in the past of being systemically racist.  But other than the previously mentioned backwards assed small towns, systemic racism is no longer the case.  In fact, I don't mind sharing that in my current agency, we have a coworker in my office who is racist.  I've never seen his actions towards people being racist.  But his personal beliefs are definitely racist.  Everyone in my office shuns him and avoids him like the plague. Nobody wants anything to do with him, much less to "protect" him.  We have all complained about him but federal unions are very strong and we can't fire someone for what is in their heart.  Either fortunately or unfortunately, he has never done anything overt enough to get fired for.  We would all applaud if he got fired. But the fact that he hasn't been fired isn't because he is being protected.  It is because he hasn't "done" anything racist and to fire him for having a racist heart would just allow him to sue the agency.  And win.   

[Tenshot13]

Rioting works?  Yup!


 You're condoning this? Nope.

Understand why after 400 years of systematic racism and multiple attemps to change the system peacefully one would feel this is the only redress?  Yup!

At the cost of local businesses ruined, historic monuments defaced and more lives lost.  What a victory.

[Dolphster]

Rioting works?  Yup!

I get where you are going with that, but I think it depends on how we are going to define what constitutes rioting "working".    It definitely works in bringing more attention to the situation.  But has it really worked in helping the plight of inner city minorities?  Maybe in small and individual cases.  But inner city rioting has gone on for decades and the same problems that have plagued inner city minorities are essentially still exactly the same.  Real and meaningful change would be educational and economic opportunities that would enable inner city minorities to break free of the cycle of poverty.   Typically, the political (regardless of party) reaction to rioting has been to throw some tax money at rebuilding businesses and maybe building some low cost Section 8 housing.  But that isn't creating opportunity which is what I would define as something "working".  

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I get where you are going with that, but I think it depends on how we are going to define what constitutes rioting "working".  

Narrowly as in the cops being charged with the crimes they should have been charged with day 1.