Breaking News: Marine Corp no longer allow the display of all enemy flags.

[CF DolFan]

Nascar is even getting rid of the confederate flag. 

I have to wonder if that will last as they will lose fans way more fans than they l gain. They will lose the die hard Southerners and those who can't stand pandering to whoever whines the loudest. My social media is full of both. I don't see banning something that offends people who do not watch already will make them come out and suddenly become NASCAR fans. I guess it could happen as anything is possible but I just don't see it.

Another side effect will be when they try and remove people for having it. That's going to go over really well.

[Dave Gray]

From a marketing perspective, get younger and more diverse whenever you can.  That's where money and the future is.  NASCAR will be fine.

[Fau Teixeira]

C'mon Fau ... I addressed that and then posed this question.

i'm not for banning any flag in general society .. fly any flag you want.
i appreciate people flying confederate and nazi flags .. lets me know exactly who they are.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have to wonder if that will last as they will lose fans way more fans than they l gain. They will lose the die hard Southerners and those who can't stand pandering to whoever whines the loudest. My social media is full of both. I don't see banning something that offends people who do not watch already will make them come out and suddenly become NASCAR fans. I guess it could happen as anything is possible but I just don't see it.

Another side effect will be when they try and remove people for having it. That's going to go over really well.

I would not be surprised if this was in fact a financial decision as in they have had potential sponsors say no because of the confederate flag and recently had existing sponsors tell them that they either need to change or lose the sponsorship. 

[pondwater]

i'm not for banning any flag in general society .. fly any flag you want.
i appreciate people flying confederate and nazi flags .. lets me know exactly who they are.

Since you know who they are. Who exactly are people who fly confederate flags

[Fau Teixeira]

Since you know who they are. Who exactly are people who fly confederate flags

at worst they're white supremacists involved in violent oppression of minorities

at best they're idiots that don't know how those flags are seen in society

most people who would fly those flags fall somewhere in between those two extremes. Probably aware of how people see them, don't care about that perception. probably disagree about the characterization. might even think of it as PC gone amok and fly them to pwn the libtards.

wherever the truth actually lies, I don't wish to associate with anyone on that spectrum.

[Dolphster]

at worst they're white supremacists involved in violent oppression of minorities

at best they're idiots that don't know how those flags are seen in society

most people who would fly those flags fall somewhere in between those two extremes. Probably aware of how people see them, don't care about that perception. probably disagree about the characterization. might even think of it as PC gone amok and fly them to pwn the libtards.

wherever the truth actually lies, I don't wish to associate with anyone on that spectrum.

I agree.  Even though I'm fairly conservative on a lot of issues, the confederate flag has always made me uncomfortable and it isn't by accident that the people I choose to associate with are not the kind of people who would wave the confederate flag. 

[Sunstroke]

I have to wonder if that will last as they will lose fans way more fans than they l gain.

I can appreciate that...but the question would be: Once the Confederate flag has been banned by NASCAR, how exactly do you suppose they could "un-ban" it in the future?



* edited to note NASCAR, since original post is on previous page

[Phishfan]

I had a Confederate flag all my life until some point in my 20s. It was ingrained in every part of our lives growing up in the south, many southerners discounted Florida by the way. There were sports mascots, monuments, and gift shops filled with items. At some point I realized people were no longer going to see me as proud of my heritage and they were going to assume the worst. I didn't want to be seen that way so I  got rid of it and haven't looked back.

[Dave Gray]

I had a Confederate flag all my life until some point in my 20s. It was ingrained in every part of our lives growing up in the south, many southerners discounted Florida by the way. There were sports mascots, monuments, and gift shops filled with items. At some point I realized people were no longer going to see me as proud of my heritage and they were going to assume the worst. I didn't want to be seen that way so I  got rid of it and haven't looked back.

I think that's the point, here.

Symbols change meaning over time.

I don't look at Lynard Skinnard pics in the 70s think how racist they must be.
But I also don't look at a big truck with a confederate flag flying off the back of it and think "wow, that guy really cares about states' rights."

See also: blackface

I think it's totally unfair to go after these old politicians who wore blackface to a party when they were in college.  But now, what we know about blackface and its social acceptance, I think that (unless the situation is special -- and there are a few), that if you willingly do it anyway, you're just being a racist asshole.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think that's the point, here.

Symbols change meaning over time.

I don't look at Lynard Skinnard pics in the 70s think how racist they must be.
But I also don't look at a big truck with a confederate flag flying off the back of it and think "wow, that guy really cares about states' rights."

See also: blackface

I think it's totally unfair to go after these old politicians who wore blackface to a party when they were in college.  But now, what we know about blackface and its social acceptance, I think that (unless the situation is special -- and there are a few), that if you willingly do it anyway, you're just being a racist asshole.

I don’t think the con flag has really changed meaning all that much.  It has consistently been used since the CW as a symbol of rejecting equal right for AA.  The folks hoisting it in 1965 to protest the CRA knew what it meant. 

Blackface has always been racist.

What has changed is racism is less socially acceptable.   

[Phishfan]

Hoodie, you are really looking at it incorrectly. You have no real reference and are talking out of your ass quite frankly. Some people definitely were what you describe but unless I'm mistaken you aren't of an age nor from a region where you can claim to have any understanding of how I and many other Southerners felt during those periods. I am in no way defending the racist views or use of the flag by others but don't pretend to know me and all the others from my generation and geographic location that have reached a new view about how you present yourself.

[Spider-Dan]

So if I understand the "Southern heritage" argument correctly, if I see a Confederate flag outside of the former Confederacy - say, in Michigan - does that mean it's clearly being flown by racists who have no such claim to respecting history?  Or is "Southern heritage" a vague and undefined catch-all available to anyone who has had any ancestor from the South EVER?

The people who fly Confederate flags outside of the former Confederate states use the exact same arguments in defense of it as people currently in the South.  So unless you're willing to declare that those guys are clear and unrepentant racists...

[stinkfish]

Let's try it this way. The war is over. The South lost. Get over it. Put the flags away.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Honoring Lee is the moral equivalent of honoring McVeigh or Tsarnaev.