So what now? What have we accomplished?

[CF DolFan]

So we are getting rid of flags, statues, the founding fathers, and anyone else who may have offended a black person in history. So now what happens? Will people now work harder for their income? Will they be a better mother, father, sister, neighbor, ... or even improve their community? Will illegal drug use go down, will gangs put down their guns and everyone in the hood clean up the streets and parks so it's safe for the kids?

I ask this because everyone is putting in a ton of time and resources into destroying many things but no one seems to care about the tons of black people who actually need help. Hell ... even police reform will only affect a couple dozen people at most. I can't see how these things will make them better off in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta etc. so maybe you can point it out to me.

[Sunstroke]

I can't see...

Post reduced to its most accurate form

[Dave Gray]

They won't directly help.  I mean...police reform, if we really did it for real, would definitely help.  But we probably won't do that.  We'll eliminate very specific types of policing but still have cops remain as this weird, bloated military force that lectures you for driving too fast.

Statues and flags and Aunt Jemima-type of stuff are symbolic gestures, but they will have a secondary effect.  Societal pressure is actually pretty significant.  It will make it harder to be a closet racist.  And these things will normalize once this dies down to the point where it's harder to be willingly ignorant that it's racist.

A lot of people still don't get that the Confederate flag is a racist symbol.  You hear all this code-speak like "states rights" or "southern pride" but that's bullshit.  It's bullshit just like when you see a Nazi flag, it's not about German socialism.  ...it's anti-Jew.  So, knowing that the flag is so racist that Nascar .....fucking NASCAR won't even let you fly it, if you choose to fly it, you're choosing to be seen as a racist and you're OK with that.

So, it won't make Flint Michigan have clean water and no gun violence, if that's what you're asking.  But that's not what it's for.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is laughable that you claim police abuse only affects dozens of people. 

[CF DolFan]

It is laughable that you claim police abuse only affects dozens of people. 

Well if we are talking about cops killing people, and that's what started the conversation across American, then that will only affect a couple of dozen people a year.

[Dave Gray]

Well if we are talking about cops killing people, and that's what started the conversation across American, then that will only affect a couple of dozen people a year.

It started the conversation because it is the most egregious offense possible, caught on video.

But cops, this is just the final stage of a much larger issue.  You ever been lectured by a cop?  I have...multiple times.  Why?  They aren't society daddy out there to teach you a lesson.

You ever had a gun pulled on you?  I have.  A cop thought I stole my own car.  He was in an unmarked car, blocked me in without a light or siren and pulled a gun on when I was in college while screaming like a maniac.

We are asking these men and women to do too many things, arming them like military to do things like hand out tickets and shuffle around homeless people, and can't afford to properly train them in all these areas.  The whole system needs massive overhaul.  Killing unarmed people is just the final tipping point where any head-in-the-sand dingus can even see that the system is too far.  But the system has always been too far.

[CF DolFan]

They won't directly help.  I mean...police reform, if we really did it for real, would definitely help.  But we probably won't do that.  We'll eliminate very specific types of policing but still have cops remain as this weird, bloated military force that lectures you for driving too fast.

Statues and flags and Aunt Jemima-type of stuff are symbolic gestures, but they will have a secondary effect.  Societal pressure is actually pretty significant.  It will make it harder to be a closet racist.  And these things will normalize once this dies down to the point where it's harder to be willingly ignorant that it's racist.

A lot of people still don't get that the Confederate flag is a racist symbol.  You hear all this code-speak like "states rights" or "southern pride" but that's bullshit.  It's bullshit just like when you see a Nazi flag, it's not about German socialism.  ...it's anti-Jew.  So, knowing that the flag is so racist that Nascar .....fucking NASCAR won't even let you fly it, if you choose to fly it, you're choosing to be seen as a racist and you're OK with that.

So, it won't make Flint Michigan have clean water and no gun violence, if that's what you're asking.  But that's not what it's for.

I completely disagree with you about the flag. I haven't had anything with one on it since maybe early high school and completely understand people having the flag who aren't the slightest racist and see it as a southern symbol. I had an Alabama (the band) wallet that had the flag on it. Th flag equals Dixie in their mind and Dixie is the south.

I have a question. Why do you think that some southern blacks use the confederate flag as well? It has to stand to reason if they say it's pride in being southern that it's the truth ... correct? I mean when they wear the "Heritage not Hate" patch it surely must mean it for them .... or do they hate black people too?

[CF DolFan]

It started the conversation because it is the most egregious offense possible, caught on video.

But cops, this is just the final stage of a much larger issue.  You ever been lectured by a cop?  I have...multiple times.  Why?  They aren't society daddy out there to teach you a lesson.

You ever had a gun pulled on you?  I have.  A cop thought I stole my own car.  He was in an unmarked car, blocked me in without a light or siren and pulled a gun on when I was in college while screaming like a maniac.

We are asking these men and women to do too many things, arming them like military to do things like hand out tickets and shuffle around homeless people, and can't afford to properly train them in all these areas.  The whole system needs massive overhaul.  Killing unarmed people is just the final tipping point where any head-in-the-sand dingus can even see that the system is too far.  But the system has always been too far.

LMAO ... I grew up poor white trash and acted like it until I turned into an adult. I got my first "police ride" when I was about 7 or 8 and was arrested on felony charges at 15. Plenty of other issues in between. I've had plenty of experiences with police and you know what ... I still taught my kids to keep their hands on the wheel and say yes sir and no m'am until they leave.

Kind of funny now but one of my daughters (pretty little cheerleader type) got arrested a couple of years ago on bogus charges. Once the charges reached the DA's desk he dropped them. It never went anywhere the charges were so bogus. In the end she spent a terrifying night in jail, it cost us a couple of thousand dollars and we were pissed but she didn't fight the cop. He got reprimanded afterwards. That's how I would expect anyone to handle a bad situation in a civilized world.

[MaineDolFan]

So we are getting rid of flags, statues, the founding fathers, and anyone else who may have offended a black person in history.

Out of curiosity, do you really feel as though as though - example, Charles Linn "offended black people?" Or the symbol of what the Confederate Flag represents "offended black people?" Because, yikes man.

[CF DolFan]

Out of curiosity, do you really feel as though as though - example, Charles Linn "offended black people?" Or the symbol of what the Confederate Flag represents "offended black people?" Because, yikes man.

Not sure what you're asking but I'll give it a shot.  Slavery was and is horrible. Slavery was legal both in the north and the south although we pretend it was only the evil south. In either case ... most people did not own slaves ... even in the south.

Many of white slaves were brought into this country especially up north. The black slaves were sold by other blacks ... and mostly came in from Spain. It was all horrible but hating one ethnicities traditions because of something where everyone was basically complicit is dumb to me. The Civil war was brother against brother ... literally. It wasn't the genocide of millions of blacks so I have a really hard time comparing it to the Nazi regime. To trivialize what Nazis did is a slap in the face to the Jewish community. You will never see a Jew wearing a swastika but plenty of blacks see the flag as heritage. There is a reason why.

[Spider-Dan]

I have a question. Why do you think that some southern blacks use the confederate flag as well?

I know the last time you mentioned this, your evidence was some pictures from half a century ago.

Is present tense an accurate way to frame that question?

[Spider-Dan]

Not sure what you're asking but I'll give it a shot.  Slavery was and is horrible. Slavery was legal both in the north and the south although we pretend it was only the evil south.

When it came to a literal war over slavery, it was the North fighting to abolish it (which they did immediately after winning) and the South committing treason to defend it.  So it's understandable why people attribute slavery to the "evil South."

The Civil war was brother against brother ... literally. It wasn't the genocide of millions of blacks so I have a really hard time comparing it to the Nazi regime. To trivialize what Nazis did is a slap in the face to the Jewish community.

Are you saying that the 4-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?

Do you understand what happened during slavery?  Do you know how many millions of black people spent their entire lives as slaves?  How many were brutally killed by their slave masters?  How many died due to malnourishment and other poor treatment?

If you're wondering why defense of the Confederate flag is seen as a thinly-veiled cover for racism, maybe it's because the people always standing up to defend that flag seem to be the same ones downplaying slavery.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

4-year-long Holocaust

12.  Dachau was built in 1933. 

[Spider-Dan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

Dachau originally held Communists, leading Socialists and other "enemies of the state" in 1933, but over time the Nazis began to send German Jews to the camp.

The Nazis certainly existed for more than 4 years, and they persecuted Jews for essentially all of their rule, but the systematic genocide of European Jews did not start until late 1941.  The gas chambers started being added in 1942.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

Dachau originally held Communists, leading Socialists and other "enemies of the state" in 1933, but over time the Nazis began to send German Jews to the camp.

The Nazis certainly existed for more than 4 years, and they persecuted Jews for essentially all of their rule, but the systematic genocide of European Jews did not start until late 1941.  The gas chambers started being added in 1942.

Completely disingenuous to compare 4 years of the holocaust to 250 years of American slavery as if the murders on Kristallnacht were not part of the genocide.  Slavery in the USA lasted 76 years.