So what now? What have we accomplished?

[Fau Teixeira]

Completely disingenuous to compare 4 years of the holocaust to 250 years of American slavery as if the murders on Kristallnacht were not part of the genocide.  Slavery in the USA lasted 76 years. 

I don't understand what you're saying here. .. I can read the words but the meaning escapes me.
Yes .. you can't just count 1941-1945 as the holocaust, it started way before then.
I guess semantically slavery in the USA went from the declaration of independence to the end of the civil war. Realistically slavery began way before and lasted until well into the 20th century.

If you want to be literal about it, slavery exists to this day in the US. And not in the metaphorical sense.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I don't understand what you're saying here. .. I can read the words but the meaning escapes me.
Yes .. you can't just count 1941-1945 as the holocaust, it started way before then.
I guess semantically slavery in the USA went from the declaration of independence to the end of the civil war. Realistically slavery began way before and lasted until well into the 20th century.

If you want to be literal about it, slavery exists to this day in the US. And not in the metaphorical sense.

You got my point.....the holocaust began before 1941, just like slavery in the US began before the ratification of the constitution.

[Spider-Dan]

Take it up with historians?  I'm sure you are aware that I'm not giving you my personal definition of when the Holocaust took place.  I would personally say that saying the Holocaust "started" in 1941 (when Hitler gave the order to start exterminating Jews) is not much different than saying slavery "ended" in 1865 (with the passage of the 13th Amendment).

I did also notice that I said "American slavery" and you changed the subject midstream to "Slavery in the USA" (ostensibly so you could make the "76 years" argument). Words matter, and I chose mine intentionally.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Take it up with historians?  I'm sure you are aware that I'm not giving you my personal definition of when the Holocaust took place.  I would personally say that saying the Holocaust "started" in 1941 (when Hitler gave the order to start exterminating Jews) is not much different than saying slavery "ended" in 1865 (with the passage of the 13th Amendment).

I did also notice that I said "American slavery" and you changed the subject midstream to "Slavery in the USA" (ostensibly so you could make the "76 years" argument). Words matter, and I chose mine intentionally.

Historians peg the date as 1933.  Of the first 20 responses to the search when did the holocaust begin only one says 1941, wikipedia, all the rest have 1933.  Quite frankly your line of argument is as offensive of a thinly vailed form of anti-semitism as waving a confederate flag and shouting white lives matter is racism.

[CF DolFan]

I know the last time you mentioned this, your evidence was some pictures from half a century ago.

Is present tense an accurate way to frame that question?

Go on Tik Tok and look for it. You'll have hours of enjoyment.

Here's a few. Sorry so big but I can't host pics from Facebook and other places. Are these people racist as well?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

One of the guys is being paid to wear it (as evident by his neck badge indicating he is employee of Pence). I am pretty sure the KC fan is just pointing out that the 49rs fan is am asshole, not supporting KC, SF and the confederacy.

[Spider-Dan]

Historians peg the date as 1933.

Some of them do.  Most do not.

Of the first 20 responses to the search when did the holocaust begin only one says 1941, wikipedia, all the rest have 1933.

Challenge accepted:



I would recommend you take the opportunity to veer towards the offramp in this discussion.  Suffice it to say that your responses to me so far have been lacking basic diligence in doing your homework, and you have written some checks that you can't cash.  Like this one:

Quite frankly your line of argument is as offensive of a thinly vailed form of anti-semitism as waving a confederate flag and shouting white lives matter is racism.

[Spider-Dan]

Go on Tik Tok and look for it. You'll have hours of enjoyment.

Here's a few. Sorry so big but I can't host pics from Facebook and other places. Are these people racist as well?

Apparently they're grifters, like those ladies Rhinestone and Polyester (or whatever their names are).

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Bullshit on challenge accepted. The ONLY ones saying 1941 was wikipedia and you posted wikipedia.  It is MFs like you and Louis Farrakhan that makes it very difficult on your number one ally.  Although Jews make up about 2% of the total US population and 3% of the the white population they were about 50% of the whites who marched in the the 1950s and 60s civil rights movement and while not as disproportionate today still a disproportionately large number of white supporters of BLM.  Then assholes like you peddle this anti-semmetic  bullshit, it really fucking pisses us off.  You’re shitting on your biggest ally.  It doesn’t stop most of us from continuing to support what we believe is right.  Of the 11 people in my high school Jessie Jackson for president club 10 were Jewish.  Seven of whom quit in disgust after the Hymietown incident.  They still supported civil rights but not Jackson.  Fuck you.  I still support the BLM movement because it is what is right but I have lost all respect for you.  I support the Obama and MLK wing of the civil rights movement not the racist Nation of Islam wing which is no better than the KKK.

[Spider-Dan]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

When you typed "when did the holocaust begin" into Google, and you were immediately greeted with a result that said 1941 in huge bold numbers (as in the screenshot above), did you perhaps stop to consider that citing 1941 as the start of the Holocaust might not an anti-semitic act, but rather a genuine difference in opinion among historians?  Or is it that you believe Google is "as anti-semitic as waving a confederate flag is racist"?  Have I somehow missed the Google landing page with confederate flags?

Now, about those checks you wrote:

Of the first 20 responses to the search when did the holocaust begin only one says 1941, wikipedia, all the rest have 1933.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

1) "When did the Holocaust actually begin? The answer is not so simple." (paywall)
2) "between 1933 and 1945"
3) "the date that has become commonly associated with the start of the Holocaust is 30 January 1933"
4) Wikipedia, so 1941
5) "In 1941, the Nazis’ persecution of the Jews became a genocide. [...] This mass murder became known as the Holocaust."
6) "The Holocaust took place in the broader context of World War II." (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
7) "The mass murder of Europe’s Jews took place in the context of World War II." (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
8) The Holocaust was the state-sponsored mass murder of millions of Jewish people [...] by the Nazi regime during WWII. (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
9) (no specific start date given, but timeline begins in 1933)
10) "Six Stages That Led to the Holocaust" - the sixth stage is extermination in death camps, which started in 1941
11) (no specific start date given, but timeline begins in 1933)
12) "Because Nazi discrimination against the Jews began with Hitler's accession to power in January 1933, many historians consider this the start of the Holocaust era."
13) Title: "A Timeline of the Holocaust (1939-1945)"
14) "the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by Nazi Germany and its collaborators during World War II" (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
15) "Yet it is unlikely that the Holocaust, i.e., genocide of Jews, began immediately after the Nazis came to power" (this source claims Kristallnacht in 1938 as the start of the Holocaust)
16) "1933-1945"
17) "January 30, 1933"
18) "It is the sum total of all anti-Jewish actions carried out by the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945"
19) Title: "The Holocaust year by year" (timeline starts in 1933)
20) (no specific start date given, but the main Holocaust landing page on this site is titled "The Nazi Holocaust 1938-1945")

You claimed that 19 of the top 20 search results give 1933 as the start of the Holocaust.  Using the most generous interpretation possible, the actual number is less than half.  Care to explain this discrepancy?  Furthermore, you originally cited the construction of Dachau - not the election of Hitler - as the start of the Holocaust.  Absolutely no one agrees with that premise.

Now, let's talk about allies.  The question I asked (which CF wisely declined to answer) was, "Are you saying that the 4-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?"  Let us go ahead and stipulate that the start of the Holocaust was 1933, therefore changing the question to "Are you saying that the 12-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?"  Does adding 1933-1940 meaningfully affect your answer to that question?  While we're here, what is your answer to that question?

Finally, I find the grandstanding about shitting on your biggest ally to be pretty rich coming from you.  Or have you forgotten?

Sorry, but when Obama was elected you lost the what little right still had to call yourself an oppressed minority.

If you asked me on Nov.  3, 2008 if I supported AA I would have not hesitated to have said yes.  But on Nov 5th, only 2 days, later I supported repealing every single program that gives a preference based on race.

The majority of people (not all, but most) judge people based on their skills and character not color.  That was true in October of 2008, but unproven, in Nov it was proven to be true

Please, tell me more about how Obama's election proved racism is no longer relevant in America.

[Tenshot13]

Today i learned Hoodie is Jewish

[Dolphster]

Hoodie never lets the facts get in the way of a good tirade.  I will give him credit for his confidence.  No matter how many times he is proven wrong, it never even slows him down.  He marches forward as arrogantly as ever.   When he posted a video that he said "proved" that cops were planting bricks on the street to incite a riot and I responded with an NBC news article which refuted the video and stated that the video was of cops unloading bricks in the Boston police parking lot which they had confiscated off the street, Hoodie never said a word.  No retraction, no apology, just crickets.  But my all time favorite Hoodie moment was when we were discussing police reform and he told me that as a federal law enforcement officer, I "don't deserve to have a voice in the discussion."    I suppose a lot of people would get mad at him, but I get a kick out of  him.  He is the perfect embodiment of arrogant stupidity.  So wrong so often yet always 100% fully confident that he is the sole source of intelligence on TDMMC.   He brings a certain unintended humor to the board which I appreciate. 

[Sunstroke]

Today i learned Hoodie is Jewish

Right? I had no idea either.

On a partisan side note... CF has to be really enjoying watching two of his favorite Lefty nemeses arguing with each other over racial issues...

[Dolphster]

On a partisan side note... CF has to be really enjoying watching two of his favorite Lefty nemeses arguing with each other over racial issues...

LOL, I was thinking exactly the same thing! 

[CF DolFan]

Right? I had no idea either.

On a partisan side note... CF has to be really enjoying watching two of his favorite Lefty nemeses arguing with each other over racial issues...

That's what this place has gotten to. Anyone who isn't a mad lib has bailed or is getting ready to bail on this site. When that happens the only people you guys can argue with is each other.