If available, would you trade for Deshaun Watson?

[Spider-Dan]

If I understand you correctly:

1) you believe Watson is grossly overpaid relative to his production
2) you think it's not only wrong to claim otherwise, but outright laughable

I imagine you have a hard time understanding why an enormous portion of sports media is currently focused on where this excessively overpaid and underaccomplished player might land, or indeed, why any team is interested in taking on his bloated contract in the first place.

There is, indeed, a laughable position in this thread.

[CF DolFan]

Jimmy Johnson says Texans shouldn’t trade Deshaun Watson — even for a Herschel Walker-type deal.

“If I was David Culley I’d go knock on his door,” Johnson told ESPN about how the new Texans head coach should handle the Watson fiasco, via Pro Football Talk. “I would talk to him and I’d do whatever it takes, I’d put my ego aside, I’d say, ‘The best thing for you is to stay right here.’ Do whatever it takes. Do not lose that player.

“They’re not going to win any games if they don’t have a quarterback,” Johnson said. “Do whatever it takes. Make concessions. Keep that quarterback.”

[EDGECRUSHER]

Jimmy Johnson says Texans shouldn’t trade Deshaun Watson — even for a Herschel Walker-type deal.

“If I was David Culley I’d go knock on his door,” Johnson told ESPN about how the new Texans head coach should handle the Watson fiasco, via Pro Football Talk. “I would talk to him and I’d do whatever it takes, I’d put my ego aside, I’d say, ‘The best thing for you is to stay right here.’ Do whatever it takes. Do not lose that player.

“They’re not going to win any games if they don’t have a quarterback,” Johnson said. “Do whatever it takes. Make concessions. Keep that quarterback.”

Totally understandable position to have, Top 5 QBs are not easy to come by, but they have mangled their franchise so badly that they need a Dolphins level rebuild. Trading Watson for a new franchise QB like Tua plus draft picks is their best bet. Shit, take our #3 pick and trade that for even more picks. They have no salary cap or draft picks, keeping Watson will not push them past 6 wins for a few years. Help is not on the way if they keep him.

[EDGECRUSHER]

The Athletic's Joseph Person said NFL insiders "think the Texans will want three first-round picks, or two first-rounders and an established player" in exchange for Deshaun Watson. 

So, Tua, the #3 and #18 pick.  I still would want to trade the #3 pick down a few spots to pick up more but if the "insiders" know what they're talking about then we are favorites as long as Watson doesn't want to go to a loser just to get out.

[Pappy13]

The Athletic's Joseph Person said NFL insiders "think the Texans will want three first-round picks, or two first-rounders and an established player" in exchange for Deshaun Watson.  

So, Tua, the #3 and #18 pick.  I still would want to trade the #3 pick down a few spots to pick up more but if the "insiders" know what they're talking about then we are favorites as long as Watson doesn't want to go to a loser just to get out.

I'm starting to change my mind on this. If they would take Tua, the #3 and next year's number 1, I would do it. That would still give the Dolphins their #18 from this year to get a quality player in this draft. At first I thought the asking price would be too much but if they will do that trade, that seems reasonable especially since that #3 pick we got from them anyway. The more I think about it, the more I think Deshaun and whomever we get in the draft even at #18 could be all we need to get into the playoffs next year. Giving up next year's #1 for that would be worth it.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I'm starting to change my mind on this. If they would take Tua, the #3 and next year's number 1, I would do it. That would still give the Dolphins their #18 from this year to get a quality player in this draft. At first I thought the asking price would be too much but if they will do that trade, that seems reasonable especially since that #3 pick we got from them anyway. The more I think about it, the more I think Deshaun and whomever we get in the draft even at #18 could be all we need to get into the playoffs next year. Giving up next year's #1 for that would be worth it.

Are you happy with just making the playoffs or would you rather just barely make the playoffs next year, then be in the thick of it for the Super Bowl in 2023?

If giving up multiple first rounders plus Tua is what it will cost, I will pass.  If Houston settles for the #18 and the #35 pick, I'll pull the trigger.

[Pappy13]

Are you happy with just making the playoffs or would you rather just barely make the playoffs next year, then be in the thick of it for the Super Bowl in 2023?

Once you make the playoffs then anything can happen. It's not like those #1 picks are the only picks we have, we still have others both this year and next year to continue to build. The way I look at it Watson is an upgrade over Tua even if Tua turns out as well as I think he could turn out. He'll be a huge upgrade if Tua doesn't improve by leaps and bounds next year. Add the #18 pick to that and I think you have a playoff caliber team next year and then there's the rest of the draft, free agency, continued improvement from young players, etc. With Watson your QB questions are over and you can continue to work on filling in all those other pieces around him. Unfortunately with Tua, I don't feel that way. We could still be looking at drafting a QB again next year if Tua doesn't work out.

I'm starting to feel like Miami lucked into this position the same way that Spider thought the Dolphins lucked into being able to still draft Tua after falling to #5. Getting the #3 pick from Houston was a gift from the NFL gods that makes getting a proven franchise QB a possibility. You gotta go for it. To be clear I don't think that's a bad deal for Houston either. They are starting over. They can take a flyer on Tua and see what happens and get 2 extra #1's in the process. Sure they lose their franchise QB, but he didn't help them much this year. They have a lot of rebuilding left to do and Tua fits in with that for them. I'm not sure he still fits in with Miami's plans to be in the playoffs next year and with just missing out this year if they don't make it in next year, it will be a huge disappointment.

[Spider-Dan]

Are you happy with just making the playoffs or would you rather just barely make the playoffs next year, then be in the thick of it for the Super Bowl in 2023?

If giving up multiple first rounders plus Tua is what it will cost, I will pass.  If Houston settles for the #18 and the #35 pick, I'll pull the trigger.

Let's say MIA had to give up Tua + Austin Jackson + Noah Igbinoghene.  Would you make the trade then?

Again, I think you guys are really overestimating the impact of first round picks.  First round picks fail all the time.  If Watson came to Miami and made the Pro Bowl for the next 4 years, I guarantee no one would even remember what those picks were.  (Without looking it up: who did NO select with the picks MIA gave them for Ricky?  How about DEN with the picks given for Brandon Marshall?)

I mean, seriously:  MIA spent the #18 overall pick on a left tackle last draft, and here we are today with the Dolphins getting ready to spend the #3 overall pick on another left tackle.  How can you guys consider these picks to have so much value if MIA is trying to clean up messes THE SAME FRONT OFFICE made less than a year ago?

[CF DolFan]

Let's say MIA had to give up Tua + Austin Jackson + Noah Igbinoghene.  Would you make the trade then?

Miami would have to give up a pro bowl type player or a first and second rounder to start. Try 2 firsts, 2 seconds, Xavier Howard, and someone else. Don't include X then you would need to add another 1st and possible 2nd to the deal. At least that's what they are saying on the Joe Rose show as a starting point. BTW ... Joe said he doesn't see the Dolphins being a player in the Watson game and the way he said it seems like he has direct knowledge.

I think many fans thought what the Rams paid was what Watson would garner but all they did was raise the price on Watson.

Stafford = Goff (former first round), two 1st rounders, 3rd
----Stafford was 12th last year while Goff was ranked 19th

Watson who was ranked 4th will get much more.

BTW ... anyone but me find it funny that Stafford said he'd play for anyone but the Patriots? hahahah

[Fau Teixeira]

(Without looking it up: who did NO select with the picks MIA gave them for Ricky?

didn't the saints go onto win a superbowl within a few years of that trade .. and the dolphins went 1-15 ?

as far as the stafford trade .. the lions taking goff was why they got so much draft compensation .. it wasn't an asset .. taking goff was doing LA a favor to eat salary otherwise what were they gonna do with a QB they didn't want eating up a whole chunk of salary cap space. So when looking at that trade it isn't .. "they got all those picks PLUS goff" .. it's "they got all those picks cause they took on goff to help LA"

[EDGECRUSHER]

didn't the saints go onto win a superbowl within a few years of that trade .. and the dolphins went 1-15 ?

as far as the stafford trade .. the lions taking goff was why they got so much draft compensation .. it wasn't an asset .. taking goff was doing LA a favor to eat salary otherwise what were they gonna do with a QB they didn't want eating up a whole chunk of salary cap space. So when looking at that trade it isn't .. "they got all those picks PLUS goff" .. it's "they got all those picks cause they took on goff to help LA"

Exactly, the Lions only got that second 1st rounder because they took on Goff's contract, otherwise a deal couldn't be made under the salary cap. They basically bought a 1st rounder.

It was odd though that the Lions allegedly received an offer from the Panthers for the #8 pick and a few odds and ends for Stafford. I think that's much better than a couple of late 1st rounders. That's what people need to factor in with trade offers, we can offer Tua and the #3 pick which is basically the equivalent of 4 late 1st rounders and our picks are right now, who knows what a 2023 1st rounder will be?

[Spider-Dan]

Miami would have to give up a pro bowl type player or a first and second rounder to start. Try 2 firsts, 2 seconds, Xavier Howard, and someone else.

Of course HOU would not take that offer.  My point is that people are so worried about these incredibly valuable first round draft picks, and yet two of those picks MIA made less than a year ago are so devoid of value that any of us would throw them in without a second thought, AND the Texans wouldn't even consider them meaningful additions.

I think many fans thought what the Rams paid was what Watson would garner but all they did was raise the price on Watson.

Stafford = Goff (former first round), two 1st rounders, 3rd
----Stafford was 12th last year while Goff was ranked 19th

To be fair, Tua is worth more than Goff right now, both because of his rookie contract and because there is a perception that Goff has hit his ceiling.

[CF DolFan]

Of course HOU would not take that offer.  My point is that people are so worried about these incredibly valuable first round draft picks, and yet two of those picks MIA made less than a year ago are so devoid of value that any of us would throw them in without a second thought, AND the Texans wouldn't even consider them meaningful additions.

Sorry ... my bad. I completely agree with you.

[Pappy13]

To be fair, Tua is worth more than Goff right now, both because of his rookie contract and because there is a perception that Goff has hit his ceiling.

Especially for Houston which is at the bottom of the league right now. Plenty of time for him to grow into the position.

[Spider-Dan]

didn't the saints go onto win a superbowl within a few years of that trade .. and the dolphins went 1-15 ?

To be clear: after MIA gave NO two firsts for Ricky, the Saints went 9-7, 8-8, 8-8, and 3-13.  Then Nick Saban decided Daunte Culpepper was a better QB than Drew Brees, and we all know what happened from there.

One of those picks was packaged with other picks and used to trade up and draft a DT at #6 overall in 2003.  He was out of the league by 2007.  The 2002 pick was used on Charles Grant, who spent the beginning of the Saints' Super Bowl season on a 4-game PED suspension, and was on injured reserve for their playoff run.