ABC, CBS, NBC and MSNBC join in the cover up of Gov Cuomo

[Spider-Dan]

Just to add to my previous statement: I think the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine was a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition for the polarization of news.  The other necessary factor was the creation of 24-hour cable news, which turned news programming from a loss-leading public service (as it was for the broadcast news organizations) to a revenue-generating ratings vehicle.

[CF DolFan]

If there is any criticism you wish to make of liberals or the left, it probably shouldn't be for anything similar to actions done for or by Trump.  You guys have completely abandoned all pretense at a moral high ground with your undying support of that dirtbag.

LOL ... kind of like all the drama thrown at Trump for bombing Iranian terrorists have suddenly gone silent when Biden did it. Remember ... it wasn't that long ago that Trump went off on his own and was starting WW3 so he could stay in office but for Biden it's just another day supporting our democratic president. hahahaha

Seems to me that news started becoming "biased" at almost exactly the same time that the Fairness Doctrine was repealed and personalities like Rush Limbaugh appeared & started criticizing the "liberal media" non stop.

But I am interested to hear whether conservatives have a different timeline... when do y'all think mainstream news stopped being objective and neutral?

I honestly have no clue so that could very well be. Seeing as how I couldn't stomach Rush in the 90s I absolutely never listened to him. Even in the later years I could only take so much of him and that usually wasn't by choice. I like his policies but understood that he is over the top for ratings. When I think of the 90s shock jocks were the in thing and he went extreme conservatism for similar effects. This is also when people like Howard Stern took off and that is more of what I was listening to.

[Dave Gray]

The same people on my timeline (and there weren't many) who were up in arms about Trump's strikes on Iran are pretty much the same people giving shit to Biden for it.

There will always be criticism for military strikes, but for all the stuff Trump did, I'd say that was on the low end of criticism.

[Fau Teixeira]

I was actually kinda ok with how pathetically weak Trump was internationally, at least he didn't start a war.

not a fan of random bombing from Biden .. and not a fan of Biden not pushing for the $15 minimum wage. I think it's stupid to not push for it.

[Dave Gray]

I think it's stupid to not push for it.

He just can't get it.

There's no path because he doesn't have the votes.  He's got 48 Democrats that support it.  The risk of bringing down the entire COVID relief bill just isn't worth it, because he simply doesn't have the support.

I'm all for overruling the parliamentarian and forcing the vote for certain things.  Start with getting rid of the filibuster, then expand voting rights.  Once you do that, you can just put a $15 minimum wage vote on the floor and it may or may not pass with 50 votes.

[Fau Teixeira]

He abandoned it weeks ago when he told a reporter in an interview that he didn't think they could get it.

It's fine to not succeed .. it's not fine to not try.

[Dave Gray]

He abandoned it weeks ago when he told a reporter in an interview that he didn't think they could get it.

Yeah, he didn't have the votes weeks ago.  It's not a matter of trying.

Manchin and Sinema said they are against it.

So, first they had to ask the parliamentarian if they could put it in the bill at all.  They were waiting to see if it was even an option.  The parliamentarian said no.

So, while they technically could fire the parliamentarian and put in one that would say yes, #1 that would go against Biden's unity message and the respecting of norms, #2 it would potentially undermine the whole bill because they literally don't have the votes to pass it, even if it was down to 50.  For the record, I'm all about doing whatever you can to pass whatever you want, because you can't play by a set of rules the other side doesn't play by.   But it's not worth the risk to lose the whole package over one minor thing.


The best chance of it passing would be to do all that stuff and just DARE Manchin and Sinema to vote against it, hoping that they'd cave at the zero hour and vote yes anyway.  But even if they succeed, Manchin loses his name as a swing-vote and probably loses the Senate seat to a Republican.

It's just politically unfeasible.  They simply do not have the votes of support.

[pondwater]

The risk of bringing down the entire COVID relief bill just isn't worth it, because he simply doesn't have the support.

A COVID relief bill should only be related to COVID. There's probably all sorts of pork and bullshit in that bill not related to COVID. They spending all that money and sending people $1400 in crumbs. The debt is gonna be our downfall

[Spider-Dan]

Here's some liberal infighting for the conservatives to enjoy!

I was actually kinda ok with how pathetically weak Trump was internationally, at least he didn't start a war.

Trump bombed and killed far more civilians than Obama, but he Didn't Start A New War, so he gets credit from the anti-establishment left.  Priorities!

not a fan of random bombing from Biden ..

Biden bombed Iranian militias in Syria in retaliation for their recent attack on Americans in Iraq.

He abandoned [$15 minimum wage] weeks ago when he told a reporter in an interview that he didn't think they could get it.

It's fine to not succeed .. it's not fine to not try.

Direct quote:

“I really want this in there but it just doesn't look like we can do it because of reconciliation,” Biden told the group, according to a person in the room. “I’m not going to give up. But right now, we have to prepare for this not making it.”

I am forced to wonder whether you also blame Bernie Sanders - the head of the Budget committee who was responsible for presenting the argument to the parliamentarian that a minimum wage hike qualified under reconciliation - for "not trying."

[Spider-Dan]

I'm all for overruling the parliamentarian and forcing the vote for certain things.  Start with getting rid of the filibuster, then expand voting rights.  Once you do that, you can just put a $15 minimum wage vote on the floor and it may or may not pass with 50 votes.

If you overrule the parliamentarian, getting rid of the filibuster won't even matter because you'll lose Manchin and/or Sinema on the up or down vote for [whatever you overruled the parliamentarian on].

[Dave Gray]

A COVID relief bill should only be related to COVID. There's probably all sorts of pork and bullshit in that bill not related to COVID. They spending all that money and sending people $1400 in crumbs. The debt is gonna be our downfall

I understand that concern, but that just isn't the way that the US Government works.  Pork is part of the process.  Little favors and greasing the palms of this state or that to get your way is literally how it's always worked since the country has been formed.  That's the nature of the beast.

[Dave Gray]

If you overrule the parliamentarian, getting rid of the filibuster won't even matter because you'll lose Manchin and/or Sinema on the up or down vote for [whatever you overruled the parliamentarian on].

Not necessarily, if you get rid of the filibuster, you can do the $15 minimum wage bill "clean".   It doesn't have to be part of anything else, whereas you have to attach it to a larger budget bill, as is.

So, you could lose those two Dems and there very well could be 2 or many more republicans that would sign on.  The concept of the increase is generally pretty popular.  Or it might still get voted down, but then it's only voted down by those that voted against it and they can't hide behind other issues.

[Spider-Dan]

So, you could lose those two Dems and there very well could be 2 or many more republicans that would sign on.

You're joking, right?  Tell me you are joking.

You cannot seriously believe that a bill - a $15 minimum wage bill, no less! - that did not have enough votes to pass because of a lack of Democratic support would be pushed over the finish line by Republicans.  That is not an even remotely credible claim.

[Spider-Dan]

Just to clarify, here:
"Overruling the parliamentarian" and "eliminating the filibuster" are two very different things.

If you overrule the parliamentarian, you can include the $15 minimum wage (or anything else you want, I suppose) in the COVID bill.  And then the entire COVID bill goes down in flames, because Manchin and Sinema bail after you overrule the parliamentarian.

If you eliminate the filibuster, then you can probably pass a $15 minimum wage, or voting rights, or DC statehood (etc.) on an up-or-down vote.  But you don't have the votes to eliminate the filibuster.  So this is a non-starter.

[Dave Gray]

I know what overruling the parliamentarian is.  I also know eliminating the filibuster.  I get it totally.

If you overrule, you can include $15 in the COVID bill.  But it goes down (potentially).  Correct.
If you eliminate the fillibuster, you can get whatever you need on 50 votes.  Also true.

Eliminating the filibuster is possible, when tied to something like voting rights.  You're not getting 60 votes to pass that, so you can encourage Manchin and Sinema to fall to party lines...pick THAT as your spot.  Die on that hill, is what I'm saying.

As for the $15 passing stand-alone: I think it's definitely possible, but probably not likely.  It's not a democratic idea and could be introduced independent of party with bipartisan support.  It's got support among voting people, in general.  The Trump base is a weird animal.  They aren't Paul Ryan conservatives.