The George Floyd Murder Trial Started

[dolphins4life]

My analogy, of which I am still researching the validity, was this:

If somebody is on drugs that makes their blood thin, and you shoot them in a place that would normally not be fatal, but the drugs makes them bleed out, you would still be legally responsible for it.

[Dave Gray]

My analogy, of which I am still researching the validity, was this:

If somebody is on drugs that makes their blood thin, and you shoot them in a place that would normally not be fatal, but the drugs makes them bleed out, you would still be legally responsible for it.

That's actually a pretty apt analogy.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

My analogy, of which I am still researching the validity, was this:

If somebody is on drugs that makes their blood thin, and you shoot them in a place that would normally not be fatal, but the drugs makes them bleed out, you would still be legally responsible for it.

You absolutely would be.

There is two aspects for murder. You need causation and mens rea.

Causation just you just need to be part of the cause so the fact that the victim was more vulnerable  would be irrelevant to causation.

Second you need mens rea - intend to kill, intend to do great bodily harm or reckless disregard.  Shooting someone in the leg rather than the chest is still intent to do great bodily harm.

The other contributing causes of death in this case should not negate either the causation nor the police’s reckless disregard.

[pondwater]

What if the bullet misses? You can't be guilty of murder if the guy doesn't die from your actions. That's the point that is being discussed.

Touché sir, 100% correct. You win the internet on 3/12/21. If the medical report says that he had no life threatening injuries identified and the cause of death was from an OD. Then it's not like shooting (knee on neck) someone falling out of a window. It's the fall (drugs) that killed them. In this case, the fall (drugs) did actually kill them, not the bullet (knee on neck). Dead is dead.

I think that the cop wasn't justified on his neck while restrained. However, with the other officers going along with it on camera. You have to ask the question if it was a training or policy issue. If the facts presented in this thread are accurate. Then the officer(s) involved should be demoted and retrained in proper protocol. If he was following protocol then the protocol needs to be examined.

[dolphins4life]

Derek Chauvin is arguing that he following his police training.

Do police academies really train their officers to kneel on somebody's neck long after they've lost consciousness?  I wonder how long he would have stayed on if the paramedics had not shown up.

The key though is proof.  Because of the drugs in Floyd's system, it was be very hard to prove that Chauvin's actions killed Floyd.  It is very likely that they did, given that Floyd lost consciousness as he was being kneeled on, but a court case requires a much higher standard of proof.

[Tenshot13]

Derek Chauvin is arguing that he following his police training.

Do police academies really train their officers to kneel on somebody's neck long after they've lost consciousness?  I wonder how long he would have stayed on if the paramedics had not shown up.

The key though is proof.  Because of the drugs in Floyd's system, it was be very hard to prove that Chauvin's actions killed Floyd.  It is very likely that they did, given that Floyd lost consciousness as he was being kneeled on, but a court case requires a much higher standard of proof.

My wife went through the police academy and she said they teach the knee/neck restraint.  But yeah, I think the issue is the amount of time he did that for. 

[Pappy13]

My wife went through the police academy and she said they teach the knee/neck restraint. 

I expect that training will be changed.

[EDGECRUSHER]

My wife went through the police academy and she said they teach the knee/neck restraint.  But yeah, I think the issue is the amount of time he did that for. 

One of the other issues Chauvin faces is that because of the drugs in Floyd's system, he looked like he was being choked to death from the knee but he had the same look on his face well before he was ever on the ground. I admit that even I thought he was being choked to death by the cop the first time I saw the video until I saw months later the earlier footage.

The autopsy basically shows no trauma so the knee to the neck could've been very light. Not only was he trained in what to do, he actually trained other cops this technique which was approved by the Minneapolis PD. His big problem is not acting earlier from when Floyd was non-responsive. I don't know what that means legally but it's bad in the court of public opinion.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Derek Chauvin is arguing that he following his police training.

Do police academies really train their officers to kneel on somebody's neck long after they've lost consciousness?  I wonder how long he would have stayed on if the paramedics had not shown up.

Even if they do train it that way, the defense is should be rejected just as quickly as the “just following orders” defense was rejected at Nuremberg and the police trainers should be charged with aiding and abetting murder.   

[dolphins4life]

Even if they do train it that way, the defense is should be rejected just as quickly as the “just following orders” defense was rejected at Nuremberg and the police trainers should be charged with aiding and abetting murder.   

Since George Floyd had three times the level of fentanyl known to be fatal in his system, it will be almost impossible to prove that he was murdered.

I personally think he was.  He was fully conscious, and then slowly lost consciousness as he was being kneeled on.

However, in court, proof is required. 

[ArtieChokePhin]

Since George Floyd had three times the level of fentanyl known to be fatal in his system, it will be almost impossible to prove that he was murdered.

I personally think he was.  He was fully conscious, and then slowly lost consciousness as he was being kneeled on.

However, in court, proof is required. 

Doesn't mean they can't find him guilty of a lesser charge, like manslaughter, aggravated assault, or even kick this case up to federal court and charge him with violating Floyd's civil rights kinda like Rodney King. 

And even if he walks free without charges, good luck making a living.  He's lost his job, his police pension, and with him being so visible to the public eye, no one is going to hire him. 

[dolphins4life]

Doesn't mean they can't find him guilty of a lesser charge, like manslaughter, aggravated assault, or even kick this case up to federal court and charge him with violating Floyd's civil rights kinda like Rodney King. 

And even if he walks free without charges, good luck making a living.  He's lost his job, his police pension, and with him being so visible to the public eye, no one is going to hire him. 

They've already settled with Floyd's family

[dolphins4life]

I'd have to find a link, but I read somewhere that he still gets his pension, convicted or not

[ArtieChokePhin]

They've already settled with Floyd's family

That's the City of Minneapolis in a civil suit.  We're talking about a criminal trial here.

[EDGECRUSHER]

Doesn't mean they can't find him guilty of a lesser charge, like manslaughter, aggravated assault, or even kick this case up to federal court and charge him with violating Floyd's civil rights kinda like Rodney King. 

And even if he walks free without charges, good luck making a living.  He's lost his job, his police pension, and with him being so visible to the public eye, no one is going to hire him. 

If he is found not guilty, he is going to sue the city and the Minneapolis PD for wrongful termination and get millions because the trial proves he was fired without cause and no one would argue that it ruined his chances at making a living. If he is found guilty then obviously that is out the window.