The George Floyd Murder Trial Started

[Spider-Dan]

Spider, your own document states, and I quote,  "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."  Doesn't this mean that it was an overdose?

No, it means he had a heart attack that was brought on by compression of his neck.

The other document says homicide but does not go into details.

It did, in fact, go into details.  The details were, "Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression".

Also, what ARE police trained to do when dealing with somebody the way Floyd was acting, fighting and refusing to cooperate or obey?

If they are already handcuffed and prone, there's nothing (legal) left to do.

We don't live in a society where "He wasn't listening to me, so I was forced to kill him" is a self-justifying explanation.  The suspect needs to present a legitimate threat, which is not the same thing as insufficiently compliant.  But police in this country believe that the most serious offense one can commit is Disrespecting a Police Officer, which immediately justifies anything up to and including lethal force.

[Dolphster]

I just read the relevant statutes.  You have it backwards.  Murder in the second either requires intent to kill OR the commission of another felony (which arguably was committed by kneeling on his neck). Murder in the third doesn’t require intent to kill just depraved heart (which basically means he didn’t give a shit about the victims well being one way or the other) a level of intent he absolutely met.

Okay, thanks for clarifying.  I'm glad that I said that MN's laws are a little different from what I am accustomed to.  That way I didn't look like a total dumbass by having it wrong.  LOL    Although I think it is obvious there was no intent to kill, I would say he definitely met the criteria you stated of not giving a shit about the victim's well being one way or another.  I hope he at least gets convicted of one of the charges.  George Floyd's record and past history show that he was kind of a scumbag.  And resisting the way he did contributed to what happened to him.  But he did not deserve to die that day and Chauvin should be convicted of at least one of the crimes he has been charged with. 

[Spider-Dan]

On Thursday, another doctor testified as to the manner of George Floyd's homicide:

Even after George Floyd took his final breath and went motionless under Derek Chauvin's knee, the since-fired Minneapolis police officer kept the pressure on for another three minutes and 27 seconds, a Chicago-based lung and critical care expert testified Thursday.

Dr. Martin Tobin, a Chicago physician who has written textbooks and specialized in respiratory and critical care medicine for decades, showed through graphics and video how Floyd pressed the fingers of his cuffed right hand to the ground and his knuckles against a police squad-car tire as he fought in vain to open up his side to pull air into his right lung.

"Mr. Floyd died from a low level of oxygen," Tobin said. "This caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a [pulseless electrical activity] arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop."

---

The idea that Chauvin was merely restraining a non-compliant suspect is absolutely ridiculous.  George Floyd had stopped speaking... stopped moving... stopped breathing.  And STILL, for THREE MORE MINUTES, Chauvin kept his knee on his neck.

Even when handcuffed, prone, and not breathing, Floyd represented too much of a threat for the police to take their knee off of his neck.  There is no justification, no rationalization for this.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have renamed the thread, George Floyd is NOT on trial. 

[Spider-Dan]

I think a better rename is "The George Floyd Murder Trial," for the same reason that "The John Lennon Murder Trial" conveys more information than "The Mark David Chapman Trial."

[dolphins4life]

On Thursday, another doctor testified as to the manner of George Floyd's homicide:

Even after George Floyd took his final breath and went motionless under Derek Chauvin's knee, the since-fired Minneapolis police officer kept the pressure on for another three minutes and 27 seconds, a Chicago-based lung and critical care expert testified Thursday.

Dr. Martin Tobin, a Chicago physician who has written textbooks and specialized in respiratory and critical care medicine for decades, showed through graphics and video how Floyd pressed the fingers of his cuffed right hand to the ground and his knuckles against a police squad-car tire as he fought in vain to open up his side to pull air into his right lung.

"Mr. Floyd died from a low level of oxygen," Tobin said. "This caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a [pulseless electrical activity] arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop."

---

The idea that Chauvin was merely restraining a non-compliant suspect is absolutely ridiculous.  George Floyd had stopped speaking... stopped moving... stopped breathing.  And STILL, for THREE MORE MINUTES, Chauvin kept his knee on his neck.

Even when handcuffed, prone, and not breathing, Floyd represented too much of a threat for the police to take their knee off of his neck.  There is no justification, no rationalization for this.

  Agreed 100 percent.  You forgot unconscious, too. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think a better rename is "The George Floyd Murder Trial," for the same reason that "The John Lennon Murder Trial" conveys more information than "The Mark David Chapman Trial."

Not even close to comparable.  John Lennon was a famous person independent before he was murdered and his name is recognizable for much more than his connection with Chapman.  OTOH, the *ONLY* reason I know who Floyd is is because he was murdered by Chauvin. 

Plenty of people know who John Lennon was but would not recognize the name Chapman.  If you know who Floyd is than you know who Chauvin is.

[Spider-Dan]

If you know who Floyd is than you know who Chauvin is.

This is not even close to true.  There were protests all over the world with George Floyd's name.  Even if you limited the question to those who already know of George Floyd, I doubt even a majority could tell you the first name of the officer that killed him.

[ArtieChokePhin]

This is not even close to true.  There were protests all over the world with George Floyd's name.  Even if you limited the question to those who already know of George Floyd, I doubt even a majority could tell you the first name of the officer that killed him.

I disagree.  Because every time you look up George Floyd online, you'll see Derrick Chauvin's name. 

[Spider-Dan]

I disagree.  Because every time you look up George Floyd online, you'll see Derrick Chauvin's name.

This reply just reinforces my point.

You look up "George Floyd" online because his name is well-known to everyone.
When you are looking up the name "George Floyd," you might see an article about where he was killed, or who killed him, or the protests that followed.  But there's no question as to which name is more well-known, and this isn't even disputable.

There are plenty of contexts in which you can see George Floyd's name without Derek Chauvin, but you will virtually never see Derek Chauvin's name outside the context of George Floyd.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This is not even close to true.  There were protests all over the world with George Floyd's name.  Even if you limited the question to those who already know of George Floyd, I doubt even a majority could tell you the first name of the officer that killed him.

If you were protesting without knowing very basic facts such as the name of the police officer than you weren't fighting an injustice you were just protesting for the sake of protesting. 

[Spider-Dan]

The name of the police officer - or the name of the police chief, or the mayor, or even the city - are not particularly relevant to the nature of the injustice that occurred.  One can protest an act of extreme police brutality without knowing the name of the particular officer that did it, because it's not about one bad apple who needs to be named and shamed.  The protests were about systemic police brutality, not "Derek Chauvin is a bad guy."

For example, not once - in the history of this message board - has anyone ever mentioned the names of the two officers that held Floyd down as Chauvin killed him, nor the name of the officer that stood by and watched it happen.  The names are not as important as the actions and the system that perpetuates them.

[masterfins]

That is NOT the autopsy report.

 This is: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

Wait a minute, this says he may have died from Covid.

[pondwater]

Wait a minute, this says he may have died from Covid.

After watching some of this trial and witnesses. At this point we can conclude that Floyd had an enlarged heart, underlying heart disease, and Covid. He also had Fentanyl, Methamphetamine, THC, and morphine in his system.

Also, on a side note but related. What's the big deal with the other guy that was shot. He was being arrested and decided to fight the police instead of going to jail. Then got back in his car. At that point you don't know what he's doing and he's a threat to everyone and deserved to be shot. All the taser talk is non sense. 

But lets talk about why the vast majority of these cases involve criminals that want to fight with police. That's the real issue here. Most of these people would be alive today if they would comply with law enforcement.

[ArtieChokePhin]

But lets talk about why the vast majority of these cases involve criminals that want to fight with police. That's the real issue here. Most of these people would be alive today if they would comply with law enforcement.

This right here.  Be cool with the police and do what they say, and they will be cool with you.