Poll: Majority of Republicans believe Trump is President right now

[masterfins]

Why would legislatures make it illegal to give someone water if they're standing in line to vote?  .. just curious .. anyone ?

I'm sure if I were giving out bottles of water with labels on them that had a message which could be inferred that I was a Trump supporter, and thereby trying to curry favor for individuals to vote for Trump, YOU would have a problem with that.  It's all about trying to swing voters at a polling place by giving the voter something of value.

[masterfins]

I posted the exact wording of the question.  The question itself was formatted as:

"Who do you think the true President is right now? Choose one."

Multiple choice with two answers, Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

Yes, which is why I added a couple caveats in my response.



[/quote]
This doesn't sound much different than, "I don't know anyone who voted for Bush, therefore Kerry must have won."


Perhaps the circle of Republicans you personally know are part of the 47% of Republicans that believe Biden is the president.
[/quote]

C'mon it's COMPLETELY different than your example.  Your analogy is bullshit.  As for the second part of your response, I find it statistically absurd that less than 1% of my circle of Republican friends believe Trump is President, yet 53% of all Republicans believe that.  By that logic you could argue Trump won several of those States that he actually won.

I know your much smarter than this Spider.

[Spider-Dan]

As for the second part of your response, I find it statistically absurd that less than 1% of my circle of Republican friends believe Trump is President, yet 53% of all Republicans believe that.

What it would mean is that there are also people out there who don't know a single Republican that thinks Biden is "the true President right now."  I don't think that's absurd at all.

By that logic you could argue Trump won several of those States that he actually won.

I don't know what this means.
I already concede that Trump won every state that he actually won.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I'm sure if I were giving out bottles of water with labels on them that had a message which could be inferred that I was a Trump supporter, and thereby trying to curry favor for individuals to vote for Trump, YOU would have a problem with that.  It's all about trying to swing voters at a polling place by giving the voter something of value.

I have no problem with existing laws that would already ban giving out a bottle of water with a candidate’s  name on it within 100 feet of a polling place. The problem with the law is it bans giving bottled water that doesn’t have a candidates name on it.

Fundamental the problem isn’t really the bottled water, but that in affluent communities the lines are less than 10 minutes while in poorer neighborhoods the lines can be several hours.  NOBODY should have to wait in line so long they get thirsty.   

The REPUBLICANS approach is rather than promoting ideas that people support to make it harder for poor people to vote.

[Tenshot13]

Or just show up prepared with a big ass water bottle.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Or just show up prepared with a big ass water bottle.

Bullshit.  Having lines that are 10 times longer in poor neighborhoods than in affluent neighborhoods should be immediately remedied.

[Tenshot13]

Bullshit.  Having lines that are 10 times longer in poor neighborhoods than in affluent neighborhoods should be immediately remedied.

Sure, but until then, bring a big ass bottle of water.

[Tenshot13]

Bullshit.  Having lines that are 10 times longer in poor neighborhoods than in affluent neighborhoods should be immediately remedied.

Also, is this nationwide or just a couple of places in Georgia? 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have always been very confused by this, and I still am.

In order to obtain my driver's license I went through "x" training to secure it.  However, when asked, I still have to present the license to prove I am legally able to operate the vehicle.  Same is true for my motorcycle (in Maine it's designation on the license, I am assuming it's the same in other states).  This is true with my nursing license.  After completing my schooling, and passing my boards, I was granted a license.  When applying for a job within this field I still have to prove it's active, and valid.

So here is what election day looks like for me, in my little town:  Show up at the high school gym and stand in line (alpha-split, by district - 2).  Once I am at the table I state who I am, they look me up, cross me off and hand me a ballot.  That is it.  I've always wondered, what if I told my crazy uncle Lou I was not going to vote this year?  Lou decides to do it for me?  What if Lou happens to know a few dozen of his friends, and neighbors, who literally never vote and spends the day traveling about, voting for them?  That's one Lou, casting a few votes.

If massive, populated areas (say my home town, Oakland) where there would be true barriers to voting for simply proving I am me, and not Lou, I would be interested in knowing why that is a bad thing.  If I order a 70' TV today from Best Buy for pick up and Lou, and not me, picks it up...there would be hell to pay.  Yes?

This is definitely one area I have always been confused by (but I am super open minded about).  Someone educate me, I am all ears (or eyes, as it were).

This is a solution in search of a problem.  If Lou was caught he could face 10 years in jail.  If successful he is extremely unlikely to alter any election.  Therefore he is extremely unlikely to try. 

This would be liking having a policy of requiring trick or treaters to prove their ages on halloween to prevent adults who Achondroplasia from fraudulently obtaining candy on halloween.  It would be extremely burdensome to prevent a nonexistent problem. 

The goal of these laws aren’t to prevent illegal voting (that is not a thing) it is to suppress legal voting.

[Dave Gray]

I'm glad you ask, Maine.  And the question is definitely fair, because on the surface, there's nothing wrong with asking someone for proof of who they are.


Where I live, you have to verify your address, I believe.  And signature match under penalty of committing a felony, that you are who you say you are.  And the reason is, that, PRACTICALLY, that's enough.  Could your uncle find our you weren't going to vote and then go vote for you?  Maybe.  He'd have to commit a felony, fake match your signature, and even if it worked, he'd get one extra vote.  And that vote wouldn't be more likely to be attributed to any one candidate or ideology.  Even close presidential elections are determined by tens of thousands of votes in any given state.  You'd have to have unbelieve levels of fraud in one direction to even swing the closest of states.

More, importantly, there is no evidence that this is happening.  I'm not exactly up to date on my numbers, but its was like single digit cases over a decade.....something like that.

Simply put, this isn't a problem that needs solving.

BUT....

By trying to solve this non-problem and requiring certain types of IDs and not others, you can statistically disenfranchise voters of one political party.  This was done much more bluntly in the past with other kinds of disenfranchising laws, and it's usually aimed at black people.  Poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfathers exceptions, etc.  This is just another decision in a long line of ways to make it less convenient for one social class to vote, because that will shave a percentage that can be thousands and thousands of votes.

It's not just "people who don't have a license".  It's people who lost their license and have a job that isn't favorable enough to let them get back to the DMV.  It's people who are broke and can't afford a replacement or they have unpaid tickets or something.  It's for people who just forgot their license that one day, but can't get time off of work to go back to vote tomorrow.

And it's not just the ID thing, but it's used in conjunction with other types of stuff: Trying to allow gun licenses as proof but disallowing student IDs as proof.  It's limiting hours so that crowded urban areas have longer lines.  It's reducing or making you jump through hoops to vote by mail, to better accommodate people with free time during the work week.

1.  Voter fraud is not a problem.
2.  By pretending to solve the problem, you make it statistically harder for one social class over another and this has a long history with race in America.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Also, is this nationwide or just a couple of places in Georgia? 

It is pretty widespread.  In my town I rarely encounter a line at all and even then it is always less than 5 minutes.  In urban areas you often see news stories of people waiting multiple hours and polling stations needing to stay open late to accommodate every one in line.  

[CF DolFan]

By trying to solve this non-problem and requiring certain types of IDs and not others, you can statistically disenfranchise voters of one political party. 

As was pointed out to me from a black liberal ... this is one of the most racists things a person can say. To say minorities aren't competent enough to secure an ID is akin to calling them stupid and less intelligent than white people. White people do not hold a monopoly at the DMV.

From my own personal perspective I'd say to those who feel it is unnecessary because there is no problem then why are you fighting against it? It's not like it is a great unattainable burden to get an ID card for a legal resident and if it won't change anything then there is no harm done.

[pondwater]

I have always been very confused by this, and I still am.

In order to obtain my driver's license I went through "x" training to secure it.  However, when asked, I still have to present the license to prove I am legally able to operate the vehicle.  Same is true for my motorcycle (in Maine it's designation on the license, I am assuming it's the same in other states).  This is true with my nursing license.  After completing my schooling, and passing my boards, I was granted a license.  When applying for a job within this field I still have to prove it's active, and valid.

So here is what election day looks like for me, in my little town:  Show up at the high school gym and stand in line (alpha-split, by district - 2).  Once I am at the table I state who I am, they look me up, cross me off and hand me a ballot.  That is it.  I've always wondered, what if I told my crazy uncle Lou I was not going to vote this year?  Lou decides to do it for me?  What if Lou happens to know a few dozen of his friends, and neighbors, who literally never vote and spends the day traveling about, voting for them?  That's one Lou, casting a few votes.

If massive, populated areas (say my home town, Oakland) where there would be true barriers to voting for simply proving I am me, and not Lou, I would be interested in knowing why that is a bad thing.  If I order a 70' TV today from Best Buy for pick up and Lou, and not me, picks it up...there would be hell to pay.  Yes?

This is definitely one area I have always been confused by (but I am super open minded about).  Someone educate me, I am all ears (or eyes, as it were).

I've already listed many things in life that require ID that nobody complains about. The best they can do is say, "voter fraud is not a problem" and "voting is a right". My question is what does either of those 2 things have to do with requiring people to show voter ID?

[pondwater]

As was pointed out to me from a black liberal ... this is one of the most racists things a person can say. To say minorities aren't competent enough to secure an ID is akin to calling them stupid and less intelligent than white people. White people do not hold a monopoly at the DMV.

From my own personal perspective I'd say to those who feel it is unnecessary because there is no problem then why are you fighting against it? It's not like it is a great unattainable burden to get an ID card for a legal resident and if it won't change anything then there is no harm done.

I posted this earlier in the thread for those of you who haven't watched it. Basically it's urban black people's response to Democrats who think blacks are too stupid, poor, and/or incompetent to get an ID. Black people's response to what Democrats think about them

It's funny watching these people say that "voter fraud isn't a problem". Getting an ID isn't a problem either, it's actually pretty much needed to normally function in today's society.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

As was pointed out to me from a black liberal ... this is one of the most racists things a person can say. To say minorities aren't competent enough to secure an ID is akin to calling them stupid and less intelligent than white people. White people do not hold a monopoly at the DMV.

From my own personal perspective I'd say to those who feel it is unnecessary because there is no problem then why are you fighting against it? It's not like it is a great unattainable burden to get an ID card for a legal resident and if it won't change anything then there is no harm done.

Bullshit.  It is not a matter of competency but of access.  The DMV in my area is not in the downtown, it is on the outskirts of the city.  The nearest bus stop is a mile away and would require changing buses multiple times to access from the urban areas that are home to most of those people who live in the city center and are carless.  The DMV’s convenient for people who own cars but inaccessible to those who would need it under a voter id law. Round trip by uber we are talking a $40+ poll tax.