Covid in Florida

[Fau Teixeira]

The latter. 

i get that .. how hard is it to wear a mask in a store? or indoors? suck it up .. it doesn't hurt

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Unless you have some example of me doing my best CF impression and saying something like "I know a dozen hardcore Republicans, and they all wish Donald Trump would die in a freak weed-whacker accident."

My neighbors have voted straight Republican since Nicon.  In 2016 they voted 3rd party, 2020 they voted Biden, on January 7th switched party affiliation from Republican to Independent.  We have never discussed Trump’s gardening practices, but I doubt they would shed many tears if he died.

There are Republicans that don’t like Trump. Including Bush, Cheney, Romney….,

[dolphins4life]

I wish we would go back in lockdown to see if we can help with all the droughts and bad stuff going on in the world

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I wish we would go back in lockdown to see if we can help with all the droughts and bad stuff going on in the world

I don’t want to see lock downs. But I would like to see an OSHA mandate requiring proof of vaccination for mask removal indoors.  Stores can either require all customers to wear a mask or have someone check vax cards at door.

[Phishfan]

If a vaccinated person can catch and spread the disease,  which I  think is agreeable,  masks for no one or everyone.

[Spider-Dan]

That's absolutely not the data I keep seeing... especially outside of the US (go figure). Survivors and vaccinated are doing about the same. As a matter of fact they are trying to figure out now if survivors are protected for life or if it's just temporary. Of course they have no idea how long the vaccine works so basically they are just winging all of it and will change their minds in a month like they have been doing for the last year.

The link you cited says absolutely nothing about the COVID resistance of survivors compared to the vaccinated!  You're grasping for any straw you can to try to avoid the obvious conclusion that vaccines are the single most important thing one can do to stop COVID. Period, point blank.

[Spider-Dan]

I've said from the start that if you can't get COVID twice that there's a ceiling to how bad we can fuck this up.

It has been known that it's possible to catch COVID more than once for over a year.  And that was before the Delta variant.

The first case in the US was a man in Reno who was infected twice, two months apart:

The Nevada man, considered an essential worker, started feeling ill in late March, with a sore throat, cough, headache, nausea and diarrhea. His workplace had been hit with an outbreak early in the pandemic before safety measures like masks could be put in place, said Heather Kerwin, senior epidemiologist at the Washoe County Health District and a co-author on the paper.

He went for testing on April 18 and his infection with the coronavirus was confirmed.

On April 27, he reported his symptoms had all resolved and he felt fine, but at the time, employees were required to test negative for the coronavirus twice before they would be allowed back to work, Kerwin said. So he remained isolated at home.

A month later, he began feeling poorly again. At the same time, there was an outbreak where one of his parents, also an essential worker, was employed, Kerwin said.

On May 31, he went to an urgent care center, reporting fever, headache, dizziness, cough, nausea and diarrhea. On June 5, he went to see a doctor who found his oxygen levels dangerously low and had him hospitalized. Again, the man tested positive for the virus, even though he still had antibodies to the virus in his bloodstream, Kerwin said.

Genetic differences between the viruses responsible for each of his infections suggested he was infected two separate times. The virus doesn't mutate quickly enough within a single person to explain the differences between the two infections, the researchers found.

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The idea that surviving COVID makes you as good as vaccinated is pure fantasy.  It's wishcasting from the same crowd who insists that they don't care about catching COVID until the day they catch it, then insist it's not a big deal until they are on a ventilator, and if they recover, insist that they've already done everything that needs to be done.  The common thread?  A combination of laziness and obstinacy that always means, "I do whatever the hell I want at every stage of the process, and if anyone else is put at risk because of my choices, screw them."

[Spider-Dan]

If a vaccinated person can catch and spread the disease,  which I  think is agreeable,  masks for no one or everyone.

If everyone were vaccinated, we wouldn't need to care about spreading the disease and masks would be unnecessary.

It would be nothing more than the flu, bro.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If a vaccinated person can catch and spread the disease,  which I  think is agreeable,  masks for no one or everyone.

It is possible for a vaccinated person to catch and spread the disease.  But it is extremely rare for that to happen.  Less than 0.001 % of all vaccinated people have had a breakthrough infection.  OTOH, it is extremely common for unvaccinated people (even those who have previously had the disease) to catch and spread it.

Masks for vaccinated or masks for no one is the equivalent as saying if car are required to have airbags than electric wheelchair need them too.  Either all motor vehicles or none. 

Mandate masks for the unvaccinated.  And ban the unvaccinated from restaurants, bars and other places that require mask removal. 

[Spider-Dan]

Mandate masks for the unvaccinated.

This is pointless as long as we are using the honor system to determine who should and shouldn't be wearing a mask.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This is pointless as long as we are using the honor system to determine who should and shouldn't be wearing a mask.

No honor system.  Show the card or wear the mask.

[Dolphster]

I got vaccinated back in May.  I actually had quite an inner debate about it.  I very briefly had some concerns about not liking being pressured to do it.  But then as my wife who is in healthcare and was actually on the COVID Emergency Response Team for multiple hospitals last year reminded me, when I was a kid, there were certain shots that I had to get before I was allowed in school.  That made me look at it in a different light.

A lot of times my first reaction to things is at an emotional level (too much testosterone, LOL), but ultimately I do consider myself a man of science.  So after giving it quite a bit of thought, including my lack of comfort at how fast the vaccine was made available when most medications are studied for years before being made available to the public, I decided that in spite of whatever concerns I had about the vaccine, the potential benefit of getting it outweighed my concerns about getting it. 

That was just my personal processing of it, and I'm not saying whether anyone should or should not get the vaccine.  Especially since I did have some concerns about it myself.  But I am leaning towards accepting the idea of people having to wear a mask, etc. if they don't have proof of vaccination.  Last week one of my best friends from high school through my 20's is in the hospital with COVID.  He objected to the vaccine because of religious reasons, personal freedom, etc.  Pretty sure he does whatever his pastor tells him to do which is a big part of why we have drifted apart.  Anyway, it was his choice to not get vaccinated, but because he chose not to, I don't feel particularly bad for him.  It doesn't help that he allowed himself to get obese, has diabetes, doesn't exercise, etc. 

[Tenshot13]

I got vaccinated back in May.  I actually had quite an inner debate about it.  I very briefly had some concerns about not liking being pressured to do it.  But then as my wife who is in healthcare and was actually on the COVID Emergency Response Team for multiple hospitals last year reminded me, when I was a kid, there were certain shots that I had to get before I was allowed in school.  That made me look at it in a different light.

A lot of times my first reaction to things is at an emotional level (too much testosterone, LOL), but ultimately I do consider myself a man of science.  So after giving it quite a bit of thought, including my lack of comfort at how fast the vaccine was made available when most medications are studied for years before being made available to the public, I decided that in spite of whatever concerns I had about the vaccine, the potential benefit of getting it outweighed my concerns about getting it. 

That was just my personal processing of it, and I'm not saying whether anyone should or should not get the vaccine.  Especially since I did have some concerns about it myself.  But I am leaning towards accepting the idea of people having to wear a mask, etc. if they don't have proof of vaccination.  Last week one of my best friends from high school through my 20's is in the hospital with COVID.  He objected to the vaccine because of religious reasons, personal freedom, etc.  Pretty sure he does whatever his pastor tells him to do which is a big part of why we have drifted apart.  Anyway, it was his choice to not get vaccinated, but because he chose not to, I don't feel particularly bad for him.  It doesn't help that he allowed himself to get obese, has diabetes, doesn't exercise, etc. 

This is exactly how I felt about the Vaccine.  I still don't like how quickly everything came out and how much it was pressured, it seemed suspicious to me.  But the pros far outweigh the cons, and I'm glad I got the shot.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I too am extremely suspicious of the pace of vaccines development.  I would bet my life savings that Trump was applying inappropriate pressure on Stephen Hahn to approve vaccines before they were ready.   Whether Hahn resisted this pressure and in fact waited until they were ready, or released them prematurely, I do not know.  But I strongly suspect it was the latter.

We don’t know the long term side effects of the vaccine.  Just like we don’t know the long term side effects of Covid. 

But we do know that Covid is deadly in the short term.  We do know that those who recover often have the type of medical conditions that lead to serious lifetime health problems.

We know complications from the covid vaccine is extremely rare.

I have zero confidence in Trump, Hahn, Blix, and Pence to put the health of the American people ahead of the political desire of Trump to get a vaccine and have the disease “just disappear like a miracle “ My faith in those in charge at the time of its development is nonexistent. 

The vaccine might not be safe.  It is just 1000 times safer than not being vaccinated.  The vaccine is not perfect, but it is better than not being vaccinated.

With the available data refusing to get the vaccine because you don’t trust Trump is just paranoia.  And I say that with absolute certainty that this vaccine development at times ignored sound medical and scientific principles for political expedience.  However, if you trust Trump but are refusing the vaccine because you don’t trust Hillary, Obama and Bill Gates then you aren’t just paranoid you are psychotic and delusional.

[Fau Teixeira]

From what i read, the underlying technology of the mRNA vaccines has been in development for 20+ years. The first study published in 1990. The reason it hasn't progressed further with regards to the common cold or the flu is all because of cost. Why would a company put (b|m)illions into a vaccine technology that won't make them money. It's not like vaccines are a high ticket item. Ignore the anti-vaxxers that think that "big pharma" is pushing vaccinations. They just don't make that much money to justify development.

So of course as a result the mRNA vaccine technology was being explored with an eye towards having the body identify and fight cancer cells. I don't need to tell you how expensive cancer medications are. There's a ton of profit to be had there.

This isn't the case of "the vaccine was developed in record time" .. it was more of a case of having the underlying technology available for decades, and finding a use that negated the development cost. And as far as how long drug trials normally take, 80% of drug trial times are spent waiting for bureaucracy not actually testing vaccines. What happens when you eliminate bureaucratic waiting? You get a vaccine quickly.