Covid in Florida

[CF DolFan]

You either choose to accept the world's scientific community or you don't.

Lot's of Drs and medical staff quitting their jobs over not taking the vaccine so I wouldn't say the scientific community is a settled as your media would like to believe with their scare tactics. Currently Orange County, FL firefighters have hundreds of firemen/women protesting against it as well as their Union.

Kind of funny to me but I saw a CNN scare tactics argument that if you take the vaccine you have a .001 percent chance of being hospitalized. They then went on to say that unvaccinated are 25 times more likely to be hospitalized. 25 freaking times higher!! Why wouldn't anyone just take it? Their scare tactics didn't allow them to actually say it but 25 times more makes it .025 % chance of being hospitalized if you are not vaccinated. Still very low.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ So, "scare tactic" is your new buzz phrase...got it.

[CF DolFan]

^^^ So, "scare tactic" is your new buzz phrase...got it.

What would you like for me to call it? Obviously the "facts" were presented in a completely different way to affect the presentation of the story.

[Sunstroke]

What would you like for me to call it? Obviously the "facts" were presented in a completely different way to affect the presentation of the story.

Call it "science," get on board and stop being part of the problem.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Choosing not to get vaccinated is no more of a personal choice than choosing to drive drunk -- your actions or inaction creates a risk to others.

[CF DolFan]

Choosing not to get vaccinated is no more of a personal choice than choosing to drive drunk -- your actions or inaction creates a risk to others.

I disagree. Any time you go out you are putting yourself at risk to catching something. This is no different. If I am covid free I do not pose a risk to you just because I didn't get a shot. If I am postive I pose no more risk than a vaccinated person ... as they carry the virus to if exposed. None of the shots prevent you from getting it nor carrying it.

[pondwater]

It still is; conservatives are the worst offenders when it comes to opposing the COVID vaccines.  And seeing you complain of supposed hypocrisy as you blame black anti-vaxxers in one post while gently caressing conservative anti-vaxxers in the next post are a joke.  I'm calling you out RIGHT NOW and you're still doing it!

On a related note, I came across a timely article today.  Looks like you're not the only conservative trying to scapegoat brown people for vaccine hesitancy:

Republicans keep hiding behind White Democrats to shift vaccine hesitancy blame onto Black Americans

...Republicans are (probably subconsciously) trying to use the fact that most Republicans are White to imply that most Whites are Republican, which isn't true.  The reality is that Black vaccination rates do reflect a greater hesitancy than is true of Whites overall, but Blacks are less hesitant than White Republicans, the focal point of the aforementioned criticism.

A poll from NBC News released on Tuesday offers an interesting lens on the question.  It broke out self-reported vaccination rates by a number of demographic groups.  Poeple who voted for President Biden last year, for example, overwhelmingly say they've been vaccinated.  Republicans largely say they haven't.  In this poll, unlike many others, Whites are less likely to report having been vaccinated than Blacks.  [...]

Yeah, already read that article a few days ago. One thing to remember, it's a poll. I'm going by figures and data that is reported by the CDC/states. I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell there is no actual data being recorded at point of vaccination that actually breaks it down by party affiliation. I know for a fact that they require your racial/ethnic data. They don't however, ask your party affiliation. So maybe you need to ask the racist government or CDC why they require racial/ethnic data and not voting data.

Yes, Black Americans are both more likely to express hesitation about getting vaccinated than Whites and (in part due to structural challenges) are less likely to have gotten a shot.

This is the only part of the article that is relevant to this discussion.

But by focusing on Black vaccination rates, Republicans are simply trying to draw a false equivalence with the left broadly, using those higher rates among Whites to cast Blacks as laggards - even though White rates are higher [b]because of White Democrats.  If you remove the White Democrats from the White totals, Black vaccination rates would almost certainly be higher.

I guess you could try that. However, without actual party affiliation numbers that are recorded at point of vaccination. It would be nothing but a guess at best. That's why they say "almost certainly" and not "definitely" would be higher. You're arguing something that isn't officially being tracked. And if you don't have fact based data, your point is moot. Provide me with official numbers that are being recorded and reported by the CDC and states broken down by party affiliation and I'll be happy to review the data.
---

So yeah, the largest source of the problem is ultra clear.  But that's OK, because you "won't judge anyone either way."  Unless it's black people, who you think I should be criticizing.  Even though I criticize everyone who opposes the vaccines and I've never expressed any sort of support for them.

Let's get this ultra crystal clear for you. I don't give half a fuck who does or doesn't get the vaccine. If black, Hispanic, or anyone else doesn't want the vaccine, that fine with me. It's not my business, that's between them and their physician. The latest updated and only official data being tracked that I can find on the subject says that blacks and Hispanics are the two largest groups of unvaccinated as of August 16th. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left when they point the finger at conservatives, when in fact the official data from the CDC and states says that the largest unvaccinated groups are overwhelmingly comprised of people who vote democrat. Like I said, show me official data being recorded at point of vaccination that supports your argument. If you can't do that there's no point for you to continue because you're just playing partisan politics again

[pondwater]

^^^ So, "scare tactic" is your new buzz phrase...got it.

That's the liberal way. Try to scare the public into curtailing their  own rights. Assault weapon, ghost gun, weapon of war are all silly nonsense terms liberals use to scare people. If you're scared of going in public, by all means stay home. But don't try to scare other people into giving up their freedoms because you're too chicken shit to deal with your phobia of death.

[pondwater]

Choosing not to get vaccinated is no more of a personal choice than choosing to drive drunk -- your actions or inaction creates a risk to others.

You have more of a chance to get killed by a drunk driver than dying of covid. The best way to prevent either is to stay away from people that drink and drive. And to stay away from people with Covid. You have the freedom to safely stay home or take your chances going out in public. By the way there are many more things than drunk driving that are statistically more likely to kill you than Covid. You know what tells us that? It's like science, math, and stuff.

[Spider-Dan]

I disagree. Any time you go out you are putting yourself at risk to catching something.

Any time you leave the house, you're putting yourself at risk of being hit by a car.  So why should drunk driving laws exist?  Why should your fear of having your family killed by a drunk driver mean that I can't drink and drive?  Maybe I don't live my life in perpetual terror of death like you, and I want to experience the freedom to drink, as the 21st Amendment provides.

If I am postive I pose no more risk than a vaccinated person ... as they carry the virus to if exposed.

Wrong.  If you catch COVID and are unvaccinated, you are much more likely to need a hospital bed, which affects literally anyone who may need a hospital bed.

I mean, if y'all actually followed through on all your tough talk about how you aren't going to let a virus rule your life, and you'd rather die on your feet than live on your knees, then we would have a different situation.  These rugged and independent anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers would choke to death in their own bedrooms while living out their ideals to the very end.

But that's not what happens.  Instead, you guys talk all this shit about the evil, corrupt doctors who are lying about the fake virus, and the inflated COVID cases, and the vaccine that's worse than the disease... right up until the moment that you're gasping for breath, and then you're demanding care in the fraudulent hospitals.

Of all the selfish assholes that make a name for themselves with their activism against COVID precautions before they end up dying of COVID... EVERY SINGLE ONE of them takes their last breath in a hospital.  Not one of them had the personal integrity to die at home, with the same contempt of our medical professionals that they spewed on a daily basis.

[dolphins4life]

Nice double standard.  So we should help some irresponsible people but not others?

[Spider-Dan]

Are... are you drawing an equivalence between feeding poor people and providing medical services to infected people who haughtily rejected precautionary measures?  Do you think poor people present a risk of infecting other people with their poverty?  Or maybe that we're in danger of running out of food if all the poor people get to eat?

Because those are my concerns about providing services to those who are too selfish to protect themselves: 1) they put others (including healthcare workers) at risk, and 2) they take up limited hospital resources from other people who weren't so adamant about Defeating The Tyranny of health authorities.

[dolphins4life]

Are... are you drawing an equivalence between feeding poor people and providing medical services to infected people who haughtily rejected precautionary measures?  Do you think poor people present a risk of infecting other people with their poverty?  Or maybe that we're in danger of running out of food if all the poor people get to eat?

Because those are my concerns about providing services to those who are too selfish to protect themselves: 1) they put others (including healthcare workers) at risk, and 2) they take up limited hospital resources from other people who weren't so adamant about Defeating The Tyranny of health authorities.

Are you drawing a comparison between caring for sick people fighting for their lives as a result of a sickness they got while trying to live their lives normally, and giving money and food to people who are perfectly capable of earning for themselves and/or are irresponsible and continue to breed while receiving that money and food, and then demand more of it. Who continue to drink, smoke and do drugs while we have to pay for their every need.  We spend billions of dollars every year rewarding people for their irresponsibility.  That could buy a ton of hospital beds.  And it drains up precious money from the dwindling number of Americans who are honest.  And we are in danger as a country.  I've already begun storing cash and soon may buy gold because I know Biden and liberals are going to go after my retirement accounts.   And they sure infect their entitlement mentality on this country. 

[dolphins4life]

Are... are you drawing an equivalence between feeding poor people and providing medical services to infected people who haughtily rejected precautionary measures?

 This part needs to stand by itself to highlight the manipulative wording.  He points out the cause of the sick people's predicament, but not the poor people's.  Notice that he doesn't say it this way.  Are... are you drawing an equivalence between feeding poor people and providing medical services to the sick   It should also be pointed out the use of the word poor is VERY debatable in this situation, whereas the use of sick is unquestionably correct.

[Spider-Dan]

Are you drawing a comparison between caring for sick people fighting for their lives as a result of a sickness they got while trying to live their lives normally, and giving money and food to people who are perfectly capable of earning for themselves and/or are irresponsible and continue to breed while receiving that money and food, and then demand more of it. Who continue to drink, smoke and do drugs while we have to pay for their every need.

Let's clarify who we're talking about, since there seems to be some confusion.

I am not talking about denying (or, more accurately, deprioritizing) medical services to all COVID victims, but rather those who specifically and intentionally refused to take precautions like masking or vaccination.  (Or as you put it: "trying to live their lives normally" during a time that is not normal.)

In contrast, you make no such distinctions with your attacks on poor people.  I've mentioned time and time again that the overwhelming majority of people receiving assistance in America are a) elderly, b) disabled*, or c) families with children. But you just can't let go of your personal resentment for some young woman you met that doesn't work and has kids.  Every comment you make about the poor is always through that lens.

*Those on disability are judged to be so by authorities that almost certainly know more about them than you do, so your inevitable response of "Well I don't think they are REALLY disabled" is not based on any sort of qualified expertise in diagnosing disability.