Covid in Florida

[Spider-Dan]

I want you to explain this to me.  Trump CUT taxes, not raised them.

Your tax cuts from Trump are temporary.  Under Trump's tax "cut," in 2025 your taxes will go up massively; this was done so that the tax cuts to businesses could be permanent.

We already are out of money.  We have a national debt.

If we're "already out of money," how does our military - the largest and most expensive in the world, by far - still exist?
We are obviously not "out" of a currency that we can print at will.

Again, if we could sign a piece of paper and instantly create 10,000 more ICU beds, this would be a different discussion.  But we can't, and America's ICUs are currently full of people who insisted that their liberty was more important than our safety.  So let them enjoy their liberty at home.

[ArtieChokePhin]

. We already are out of money.  We have a national debt.  Edit: no we are not running out of money because we can just keep taxing the working class.  This is where the screeching comes from because people like me work hard for our money and deserve to keep it.  And because it continues to incentivize people not to work and/or improve their lives

35 years ago, we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope

Today we have Pedo Joe, no cash and no hope

[Dolphster]

Every person posting on this forum pays "plenty of state and federal taxes."

Yeah, I was going to call D4L out on that as he probably pays a lot less than many many people given what he has described his job(s) as on here.  But I just didn't have the emotional energy to get tangled up in a discussion with him about it so I just apologized and let it go.  

[pondwater]

Every person posting on this forum pays "plenty of state and federal taxes."

Proof? You are not qualified, nor do you have the data to make that claim.

If we're "already out of money," how does our military - the largest and most expensive in the world, by far - still exist?
We are obviously not "out" of a currency that we can print at will.

On credit and faith. The more currency you print, the less it's worth. The less it's worth, the more of your devalued currency it takes to buy things. It's a vicious cycle. I'm not religious, but it's funny how you guys on the left make make fun of people having faith in a God. But at the same time you have faith in an inefficient government that debases its own currency. Some of that good ole fashioned liberal hypocrisy at its finest LMFAO

Again, if we could sign a piece of paper and instantly create 10,000 more ICU beds, this would be a different discussion.  But we can't, and America's ICUs are currently full of people who insisted that their liberty was more important than our safety.  So let them enjoy their liberty at home.

That's because the beds are in demand and there's short supply. The more dollars you print, the higher the supply and the lower the value.

[Spider-Dan]

So in reality, you have people who pay nothing in federal income tax and get paid thousands of dollars for nothing.

Why should anyone care how much federal income tax they pay, when we both agree they still pay thousands of dollars in OTHER TAXES?

Why is a dollar that a billionaire pays in income tax somehow More Important than a dollar I pay in Medicare tax?

Federal, state, and local income taxes are included in payroll taxes.

No, they aren't.  Income taxes are not payroll taxes.  Payroll taxes are things like Medicare and SS.
Just because there's a line for income tax withholding on your paystub, that does not make it a "payroll tax."

We're specifically talking about federal income taxes.

No, YOU are.  I'm talking about taxes. You're hyper-focused on the one kind of tax borne primarily by the rich, while implying that the rest of us are leeches for "only" paying thousands and thousands of dollars in payroll taxes.

Proof? You are not qualified, nor do you have the data to make that claim.

What sort of proof would you be looking for to show that a person paid "plenty" of state and federal taxes?
I'm curious to see you define the minimum dollar amount of "plenty."

That's because the beds are in demand and there's short supply. The more dollars you print, the higher the supply and the lower the value.

...OK?
I'm saying that we should increase the available supply of beds by rejecting some of the demand from people who value their freedom more than our safety.  Enjoy your freedom at home.

[pondwater]

Why should anyone care how much federal income tax they pay, when we both agree they still pay thousands of dollars in OTHER TAXES?

Because almost everyone that EARNS income pays those OTHER taxes too one way or the other. But since D4L was talking about freeloaders on the system. Explain to me how people sitting around on unemployment and benefits are paying payroll taxes?

Why is a dollar that a billionaire pays in income tax somehow More Important than a dollar I pay in Medicare tax?

Are you getting a benefit from SS and Medicare payroll taxes? Are you implying that rich people don't pay SS and medicare taxes?

No, they aren't.  Income taxes are not payroll taxes.  Payroll taxes are things like Medicare and SS.
Just because there's a line for income tax withholding on your paystub, that does not make it a "payroll tax."

The point is that they are all tax withholdings. If you want to play semantics, play it with your common core classmates tomorrow at school.

No, YOU are.  I'm talking about taxes. You're hyper-focused on the one kind of tax borne primarily by the rich, while implying that the rest of us are leeches for "only" paying thousands and thousands of dollars in payroll taxes.

Again, everyone pays SS and medicare taxes. Are you actually trying to argue that federal income tax is only for rich people to pay because everyone else pays OTHER taxes that they will eventually receive back in benefits later on? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

What sort of proof would you be looking for to show that a person paid "plenty" of state and federal taxes?
I'm curious to see you define the minimum dollar amount of "plenty."

You don't know that every person posting on this forum pays "plenty of state and federal taxes." There could be some people posting here that pay zero in taxes. Could be me, could be you, or it could be anyone else. You don't know anyone's financial and tax situation.

...OK?

I'm saying that we should increase the available supply of beds by rejecting some of the demand from people who value their freedom more than our safety.  Enjoy your freedom at home.

Likewise, if you value your safety it's your responsibility to keep yourself safe, not other people's responsibility. You have the freedom to stay at home as well, that's your best bet. Good luck in your quest fine sir.

[Spider-Dan]

Because almost everyone that EARNS income pays those OTHER taxes too one way or the other. [...]

Again, everyone pays SS and medicare taxes. [...]

Are you implying that rich people don't pay SS and medicare taxes?

I'm not implying it; I'm stating it directly.

The only people who pay SS and Medicare taxes are people with earned income (e.g. wages) like you, me, and the rest of the posters on this board.  People with REAL wealth (e.g. billionaires) do not obtain their money as earned income; they obtain it from capital gains, which are not subject to payroll taxes.  And even if some portion of their pay does come from earned income, the maximum earned income that is subject to SS/Medicare taxes is $142,800; any earned income over that amount is exempt from payroll taxes.

But since D4L was talking about freeloaders on the system. Explain to me how people sitting around on unemployment and benefits are paying payroll taxes?

Great example, since unemployment is a benefit that you pay into when working.  You cannot receive unemployment if you haven't worked.

There is one class of Americans who are receiving benefits that they definitely didn't pay into: children.  But I doubt that even you would be shameless enough to make the argument that a child should not receive food that they didn't personally earn.

The point is that they are all tax withholdings.

I agree!  So why are you acting like paying federal income tax is somehow More Important than paying plain old payroll taxes?  Why do you drone on endlessly about the portion of federal income taxes paid by rich people while ignoring that the overwhelming majority of payroll taxes are paid by middle- and lower-income Americans?

Are you actually trying to argue that federal income tax is only for rich people to pay because everyone else pays OTHER taxes that they will eventually receive back in benefits later on? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

This question makes it seem like you believe that rich Americans don't receive anything in exchange for their tax dollars; please tell me YOU aren't that stupid.  Because every billionaire I've seen makes use of public roads and public airports, to say nothing of the rest of our government.

You don't know that every person posting on this forum pays "plenty of state and federal taxes." There could be some people posting here that pay zero in taxes.

If you are an adult in America, and you participate in society enough to be on the internet, it is impossible for you to pay "zero in taxes."

Likewise, if you value your safety it's your responsibility to keep yourself safe, not other people's responsibility.

If you believe this, then you shouldn't be asking other people to take care of you in a hospital.
Live your stated values.

[Spider-Dan]

In fact, let me expound on this dishonest BS:

Likewise, if you value your safety it's your responsibility to keep yourself safe, not other people's responsibility. You have the freedom to stay at home as well, that's your best bet.

You and yours love to make these mouth noises about, "You should do what YOU think is appropriate to keep YOURSELF safe."  But that's a lie; you don't believe it.  Because the moment that businesses say, "Well, OK, we think we are kept safe by only doing business with customers who are masked and/or vaccinated," y'all start screaming bloody murder about how YOUR rights are being infringed if YOU aren't allowed to ride on a cruise ship while unvaccinated.  So we're not even allowed to keep ourselves safe from you!

Your idea of freedom is always nothing more than "I do what I want, and YOU do what I want."  But what else would you expect from the same people who opposed gay marriage?

[pondwater]

I'm not implying it; I'm stating it directly.

The only people who pay SS and Medicare taxes are people with earned income (e.g. wages) like you, me, and the rest of the posters on this board.  People with REAL wealth (e.g. billionaires) do not obtain their money as earned income; they obtain it from capital gains, which are not subject to payroll taxes.  And even if some portion of their pay does come from earned income, the maximum earned income that is subject to SS/Medicare taxes is $142,800; any earned income over that amount is exempt from payroll taxes.

If a wealthy person pays SS/Medicare taxes on $142,800, then they've paid their share and more than people in the bottom 50% pay. In the case of someone not paying into SS/Medicare, they won't receive benefits if they don't have enough credits.

Great example, since unemployment is a benefit that you pay into when working.  You cannot receive unemployment if you haven't worked.

Who ever said they never worked? We're talking about people gaming the system. Funny how you think that the evil rich people are the only one's in the world who are greedy and game the system. Those type people are on all ends of the spectrum.

There is one class of Americans who are receiving benefits that they definitely didn't pay into: children.  But I doubt that even you would be shameless enough to make the argument that a child should not receive food that they didn't personally earn.

Here we go with the stereotypical liberal talking points. "Oh, what about the poor children" LMFAO, you can't shame me with your nonsense. As mentioned before, if you're so worried about poor people and children. You and all the rest of the bleeding heart liberals feel free to give away any possessions you own. Put your money where your mouth is. I choose to make my own decisions regarding my possessions.

I agree!  So why are you acting like paying federal income tax is somehow More Important than paying plain old payroll taxes?  Why do you drone on endlessly about the portion of federal income taxes paid by rich people while ignoring that the overwhelming majority of payroll taxes are paid by middle- and lower-income Americans?

Because payroll taxes are paid back out in benefits. If you don't pay them, you don't get benefits.

This question makes it seem like you believe that rich Americans don't receive anything in exchange for their tax dollars; please tell me YOU aren't that stupid.  Because every billionaire I've seen makes use of public roads and public airports, to say nothing of the rest of our government.

Everyone gets to use the roads and airports even if they pay zero taxes.

If you are an adult in America, and you participate in society enough to be on the internet, it is impossible for you to pay "zero in taxes."

Yeah, ok bud. Are you on acid?

If you believe this, then you shouldn't be asking other people to take care of you in a hospital.
Live your stated values

I don't go to the hospital and ask anyone to take care of me. I'll pay them to take care of me. Last I saw, healthcare was a for profit business in the US. Or haven't you noticed.

[pondwater]

In fact, let me expound on this dishonest BS:

You and yours love to make these mouth noises about, "You should do what YOU think is appropriate to keep YOURSELF safe."  But that's a lie; you don't believe it.  Because the moment that businesses say, "Well, OK, we think we are kept safe by only doing business with customers who are masked and/or vaccinated," y'all start screaming bloody murder about how YOUR rights are being infringed if YOU aren't allowed to ride on a cruise ship while unvaccinated.  So we're not even allowed to keep ourselves safe from you!

I don't have a right to shop at any private business. If they want me to leave, I'll go somewhere else. Seems that I remember that there were some gay people screaming bloody murder about how their rights were being infringed because they couldn't have some cake or some such childish nonsense. But then again, that's just the type of hypocritical bullshit you spout everyday. As far as I'm concerned, no one has a right to make someone else do business with them.

Your idea of freedom is always nothing more than "I do what I want, and YOU do what I want."  But what else would you expect from the same people who opposed gay marriage?

I don't oppose gay marriage. If you're into that type shit, go find you a dude and have at it. It's none of my business what kind of strange shit people do in their personal life. However, homosexuality is a behavior and I am allowed to have an opinion when someone broadcasts their abnormal behaviors in public.

[Dolphster]

Can management please start a new forum for just Spider and Pondwater?

[pondwater]

Can management please start a new forum for just Spider and Pondwater?

Put us in the octagon on the undercard of my hypothetical Tebow/Kaepernick PPV fight so we can beat the shit out of each other, haha

[dolphins4life]

In terms of Republican tax cuts for businesses and the rich, businesses earn their money.  So do the rich.  Isn't permitting people to keep the money they earned a good thing?  Nobody has demonstrated to me yet how I am hurting myself by voting Republican.

[dolphins4life]

This proves that I am correct when I say many people on disability are cheating the system https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/120516/social-security-fraud-what-it-costing-taxpayers.asp#:~:text=Collectively%20these%20frauds%20cost%20the%20U.S.%20government%20and,disability%20benefits%20the%20person%20is%20not%20entitled%20to.     

[dolphins4life]

I do understand Spider's response to my comparison about irresponsible people who sponge, and irresponsible people who get COVID.  For the former group, we can continue to take money from hard working people to pay for it, whereas for the  latter group, we can't keep taking hospital beds.  This drives me further to right.