How Flores stacks up against Gase, Philbin, and Sparano

[Tenshot13]

This seems like a pretty "duh" statement to me.  There are very few teams that have won it all in the modern era that didn't have good/great QB play.  Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are the only ones that come to mind, and that was still a pretty long time ago.

[Dolfanalyst]

This seems like a pretty "duh" statement to me.  There are very few teams that have won it all in the modern era that didn't have good/great QB play.  Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are the only ones that come to mind, and that was still a pretty long time ago.

So then what isn't "duh" is the answer to this question:  how do you judge head coaches in the absence of that?

That's what this thread is about -- judging head coaches.

[stinkfish]

I'd say that Denver won their Superbowl with an old and broken down Peyton Manning. Almost anyone could have been that team's QB.

[CF DolFan]

I heard that but no details were given. Disciplinary could mean going to the Pepsi machine and accidentally violating Covid rules or doing cocaine off of a stripper while missing practice.

It could also mean violation of some Covid protocol. Teams are forced to enforce the protocols and there are many.

[EDGECRUSHER]

It could also mean violation of some Covid protocol. Teams are forced to enforce the protocols and there are many.

Sure, but I can forgive someone for sneaking out to go to Burger King. I am not so tolerant of a fringe player going to a strip club for 6 hours and coming to practice drunk. That's why the context is important.

[masterfins]

I'd say that Denver won their Superbowl with an old and broken down Peyton Manning. Almost anyone could have been that team's QB.

Peyton still had the experience to "manage" the game at an elite level.  But to your point the other thing that makes a Super Bowl Champion is an extraordinarily good defense.  Denver had a great Defense when Manning won.  The Ravens won a SB because of their defense, not Joe Flacco.  I'd say even the Seahawks won because of their Defense, more than because of their QB.

[Dolfanalyst]

Peyton still had the experience to "manage" the game at an elite level.  But to your point the other thing that makes a Super Bowl Champion is an extraordinarily good defense.  Denver had a great Defense when Manning won.  The Ravens won a SB because of their defense, not Joe Flacco.  I'd say even the Seahawks won because of their Defense, more than because of their QB.

Seahawks had a great defense and a great passing game, hence the rare Super Bowl blowout.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think the team Philbin inherited was comparable to the team Flores did, and I think the team Sparano inherited was significantly worse.

Don't make me link the picture of the Belichick coaching tree again.

How many more teams do you think will hire a BB assistant b4 they realize that he is better at winning games than developing other coaches?

[masterfins]

How many more teams do you think will hire a BB assistant b4 they realize that he is better at winning games than developing other coaches?

Probably about the same time that people realize that it was Tom Brady, not BB, that was mostly responsible for winning games.  BB's arrogance cost them at least one SB.

[dolphins4life]

Probably about the same time that people realize that it was Tom Brady, not BB, that was mostly responsible for winning games.  BB's arrogance cost them at least one SB.

Then explain to me this:

1) Career playoff won-loss record with a rating below 78.5 on at least twenty five attempts

Brady is 10-5

Every other quarterback in NFL history is 90-310

2) Career playoff won-loss record with a rating below 73.5 on at least 33 attempts

Brady is 7-4

Every other quarterback is 27-175

The Patriots often won in the playoffs IN SPITE OF Tom Brady

Now, this doesn't change the fact that BB is an incompetent moron.  No other coach would bench their best defender for AN ENTIRE GAME while their defense was getting shredded.
 

[Dolfanalyst]

Then explain to me this:

1) Career playoff won-loss record with a rating below 78.5 on at least twenty five attempts

Brady is 10-5

Every other quarterback in NFL history is 90-310

2) Career playoff won-loss record with a rating below 73.5 on at least 33 attempts

Brady is 7-4

Every other quarterback is 27-175

The Patriots often won in the playoffs IN SPITE OF Tom Brady

Now, this doesn't change the fact that BB is an incompetent moron.  No other coach would bench their best defender for AN ENTIRE GAME while their defense was getting shredded.

Pass offense and pass defense win games, primarily.  Those are the two strongest predictors of winning in the league.

Between 2001 and 2019, the Patriots had the biggest passer rating differential in the league (16.7).  So they won with pass offense and pass defense.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

There are games that NE won because of Brady AND gams in spite of Brady playing poorly.

[Dolphster]

There are games that NE won because of Brady AND gams in spite of Brady playing poorly.

I'd say that statement accurately and clearly sums it all up. 

[Dolfanalyst]

There are games that NE won because of Brady AND gams in spite of Brady playing poorly.

If the opposing team doesn't score, your QB could have the worst single game in history and you nonetheless can't possibly lose.

[Dolfanalyst]

I'd say that statement accurately and clearly sums it all up. 

Well, it doesn't explain why Brady's record in poor passer rating playoff games is so much better than the league norm, as was posted above.  What explains that is the Patriots' defense 2001-2019.

Again, if you hold an opposing team scoreless (for example), you give your QB/offense a whole lot of leeway to play poorly and still win.

This is why the 2021 Dolphins are so poor -- their pass offense and pass defense are poor.  If you play poorly with regard to the two strongest predictors of winning in the league, don't expect to have a good record.