Brian Flores Suing NY Giants and Maybe the Whole League Over Hiring Process

[EDGECRUSHER]

I personally think nothing comes of this.

Some token moves by the NFL might come from this, but I don't think he can prove anything and the lawsuit might be thrown out quickly. The justice system isn't like Hollywood, I can't accuse someone of wrongdoing and immediately be granted access to all their personal financial and communication records. I would have to show a judge some decent evidence first before he granted these requests. If Flores got nothing, then it should die quickly. Things like "He looked kinda drunk" don't count since that's an opinion and not illegal anyway.

[DenverFinFan]

Some token moves by the NFL might come from this, but I don't think he can prove anything and the lawsuit might be thrown out quickly. The justice system isn't like Hollywood, I can't accuse someone of wrongdoing and immediately be granted access to all their personal financial and communication records. I would have to show a judge some decent evidence first before he granted these requests. If Flores got nothing, then it should die quickly. Things like "He looked kinda drunk" don't count since that's an opinion and not illegal anyway.

I knew he was talking about Elway before I saw it was about Elway, it’s an open secret here that Elway is a lush.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I knew he was talking about Elway before I saw it was about Elway, it’s an open secret here that Elway is a lush.

Here's the thing, Elway very well could've been a drunken asshole but that isn't illegal and it can't be proven. So, filing a lawsuit like that is for ESPN and CNN, not the legal system.

[DenverFinFan]

Here's the thing, Elway very well could've been a drunken asshole but that isn't illegal and it can't be proven. So, filing a lawsuit like that is for ESPN and CNN, not the legal system.

For sure, I’m just saying, at least that bit by Flores is totally believable. It’s been rumored and talked about here for 15 years at least. Maybe he knew the rumors and ran with it, but on this part at least I believe Flores.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Elway very well could've been a drunken asshole but that isn't illegal

Being a drunken asshole is not illegal per se.  Showing up to an interview an hour late and drunk is very strong evidence (although not conclusive by itself) that the person wasn't taking the interview seriously. 

[DenverFinFan]

Being a drunken asshole is not illegal per se.  Showing up to an interview an hour late and drunk is very strong evidence (although not conclusive by itself) that the person wasn't taking the interview seriously. 

Exactly, it supports that part of Flores’ case, and I find it totally believable.

[pondwater]

Exactly, it supports that part of Flores’ case, and I find it totally believable.

Do you find it provable years later? Also, if it was such an issue for Flores why did he wait until years later to address it? This whole thing is nothing but a shake down by Flores, lmfao

[DenverFinFan]

Do you find it provable years later? Also, if it was such an issue for Flores why did he wait until years later to address it? This whole thing is nothing but a shake down by Flores, lmfao

Not provable and I don’t care what Flores’ motivations are I’m only saying, knowing Elway, I believe that he showed up to the interview with a massive hangover.

[pondwater]

Not provable and I don’t care what Flores’ motivations are I’m only saying, knowing Elway, I believe that he showed up to the interview with a massive hangover.

I don't doubt it either, but if it can't be proven it's a moot point. But I can't believe you don't care what Flores' motivations are. Hell, that's one of the most important things since his moves don't make sense.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Do you find it provable years later? Also, if it was such an issue for Flores why did he wait until years later to address it? This whole thing is nothing but a shake down by Flores, lmfao

Very provable.

Atty : Do you recall the day Elway interviewed Flores?

Sec for Elway: Vaguely.

A: Do you recall when the meeting was scheduled to begin?

S: No, I don’t remember the exact time, but I do remember that Flores was waiting in the outer office for about 90 minutes.

A: Do you know why Elway was late?

S: Yes, John mentioned he overslept because he was hungover.

If Elway was late there was witnesses.  If he wasn’t late there are witnesses of that to.  Eitherway it is very provable.

[pondwater]

Very provable.

Atty : Do you recall the day Elway interviewed Flores?

Sec for Elway: Vaguely.

A: Do you recall when the meeting was scheduled to begin?

S: No, I don’t remember the exact time, but I do remember that Flores was waiting in the outer office for about 90 minutes.

A: Do you know why Elway was late?

S: Yes, John mentioned he overslept because he was hungover.

If Elway was late there was witnesses.  If he wasn’t late there are witnesses of that to.  Eitherway it is very provable.

Yeah, good luck with that. Interesting that you didn't address why Flores didn't bring it up until years later if it was such an important issue. Par for the course

[EDGECRUSHER]

Very provable.

Atty : Do you recall the day Elway interviewed Flores?

Sec for Elway: Vaguely.

A: Do you recall when the meeting was scheduled to begin?

S: No, I don’t remember the exact time, but I do remember that Flores was waiting in the outer office for about 90 minutes.

A: Do you know why Elway was late?

S: Yes, John mentioned he overslept because he was hungover.

If Elway was late there was witnesses.  If he wasn’t late there are witnesses of that to.  Eitherway it is very provable.

But, it doesn't prove anything in a court of law. It just proves he was late because he was drunk. Unprofessional? Sure. Can it be swept away with a "I used to have a problem and I no longer do"? Sure can. Someone being unprofessional is not proof that they never intended to hire someone, it just means they're a dick.

[Dave Gray]

I don't think it's fair to discredit Flores for when he made the complaints.  I guess it's fair to criticize him for playing along, if that's what happened.

...but it's totally common for a whistleblower to play within the system until they realize they're powerless to affect change and then to drop all the bombshells at once.

How we strive for diversity is going to be ever-changing.  A Rooney Rule might be good for some time and then it may outlive its usefulness and become more detrimental to progress at some point.   ...so, these are conversations that we need to have and Flores' case is making us look at hiring practices.  Ultimately diversity is good for the health of the sport.

Flores may be difficult to work with and also correct -- he might be an imperfect messenger.

There's also another issue that's indirectly tied to race, which is hiring from the same few coaching trees.  It's not specifically racist, but hiring the same couple of guys from the same few families and who they hand-pick probably isn't providing the best candidates and growth for the sport.  The fact that we're looking at the same names in the same pool isn't allowing for new ideas, which holds things back.

And I'm guilty of this too.   I'm a big Lane Kiffin fan and he's from the same network of privilege and famous names.

[pondwater]

I don't think it's fair to discredit Flores for when he made the complaints.  I guess it's fair to criticize him for playing along, if that's what happened.

...but it's totally common for a whistleblower to play within the system until they realize they're powerless to affect change and then to drop all the bombshells at once.

He's not a whistleblower. He hasn't claimed anything that we didn't already know. He's actually just a disgruntled employee that happens to be black. Hell, now he's complaining that the Texans hired Lovie Smith instead of him. Hell, most smart people would hire Lovie Smith instead of him.

How we strive for diversity is going to be ever-changing.  A Rooney Rule might be good for some time and then it may outlive its usefulness and become more detrimental to progress at some point.   ...so, these are conversations that we need to have and Flores' case is making us look at hiring practices.  Ultimately diversity is good for the health of the sport.

Flores may be difficult to work with and also correct -- he might be an imperfect messenger.

There's also another issue that's indirectly tied to race, which is hiring from the same few coaching trees.  It's not specifically racist, but hiring the same couple of guys from the same few families and who they hand-pick probably isn't providing the best candidates and growth for the sport.  The fact that we're looking at the same names in the same pool isn't allowing for new ideas, which holds things back.

And I'm guilty of this too.   I'm a big Lane Kiffin fan and he's from the same network of privilege and famous names.

What happens when diversity clashes with who are actually considered the best candidates by the teams. You can't hire minorities just to say you hired minorities. The actual results on the field are what matters. People point out that ex players aren't represented enough in NFL coaching. But as noted earlier, playing doesn't equate to coaching. In fact, most coaches have previous experience coaching and start in college or shortly thereafter as assistants to actual coaches and work their way up over the years. And as far as I can tell, more white people go into coaching earlier. Whereas black people go into playing earlier and work their way up over the years. That is why black people are over represented as players.

They are two different career paths that are determined by actual individual choices which results in experience. Common sense would dictate that most of the time most teams are going to hire the person with more experience doing the job that they are applying for. Who seems more likely to land a coaching job? Someone who has been at some level of coaching for 10-15 years or someone who played football for 10-15 years?

If you reverse the situation, I don't see many ex coaches being hired as players. Nor should they be since they lack the experience and tools needed to be successful to win games as players. NFL teams are not rejecting black coaching candidates if they think they are the best option to win them games.

[CF DolFan]

I don't think it's fair to discredit Flores for when he made the complaints.  I guess it's fair to criticize him for playing along, if that's what happened.

I get what you're saying but if "integrity" is your reasoning behind why you came forward then you will be questioned for playing along in the game unitl you were released.