Super Bowl 56- Bengals vs Rams

[dolphins4life]

How does this prove that I fail?

Does this even make sense.

I said, "Many times jersey grabs are not flagged"

You showed me an example of a jersey grab not flagged.

Doesn't this prove I succeeded?   

[dolphins4life]

If it does not significantly affect the receiver, or if it is accompanied by an attempt to make a play on the ball, referees will often not flag jersey grabs.

[Dave Gray]

I thought that controversial call late against the Bengals was justified.  It looked to me like the guy grabbed the guy's body and spun him.

That's not a call that's caught and called all the time, but if you see it, it's PI.

[dolphins4life]

Well, they didn't call PI, they called holding.

HOLDING is a call made BEFORE the pass is thrown.

PASS INTERFERENCE is a call AFTER the pass is thrown.

I have seen far worse jersey grabs made after the pass is thrown not called.

[dolphins4life]

I still want to know how the face mask penalty would have been enforced if it had been called

[Spider-Dan]

It would have been a 15 yard penalty from the previous line of scrimmage.

[Dave Gray]

Well, they didn't call PI, they called holding.

HOLDING is a call made BEFORE the pass is thrown.

PASS INTERFERENCE is a call AFTER the pass is thrown.

I have seen far worse jersey grabs made after the pass is thrown not called.

Correct.

This was a call that is often missed.  It's hard to spot and it's judgement, since some jersey tugging seems to be permitted.  In this particular case, it looks to me like the better call would've been PI, but it's close.  I can't say exactly when the ball was in the air since it was a short pass.  But I do think that the defender gave himself unfair advantage to knock the ball down.   Had he not tugged, it's much more likely that the receiver catches that ball.

[Downunder Dolphan]

How does this prove that I fail?

Does this even make sense.

I said, "Many times jersey grabs are not flagged"

You showed me an example of a jersey grab not flagged.

Doesn't this prove I succeeded?  

Sigh. They say a picture says a thousand words, and these should have settled that argument (and the Yoda reference I hoped put a smile on Dave's face).

I had no problem with the no call on the jersey tug by Ramsey.  Jersey tugs exist and are called on a spectrum,  Referees will often let a jersey tug go if it does not significantly affect the receiver.  I can cite PLENTY of examples of jersey tugs not called.

Look at the picture, and then look at your own words that I highlighted, and look at the situation.

Higgins has made a break in his route to get separation and is doing so from Ramsay, who has grabbed the clothing to stop him getting that space. This is not a little grab by any means (like a little shoulder/waist grab at the line), the clothing is fully stretched out and clearly visible.

If it does not significantly affect the receiver, or if it is accompanied by an attempt to make a play on the ball, referees will often not flag jersey grabs.

Yes it does in this case, as he cannot get separation because of the jersey grab. It basically drew Ramsay back in to contest the pass (and almost wind up with a pick).

Quite simply, this is either clear cut defensive PI if the pass is in the air, or otherwise holding. If you can't see that, you ain't looking.

[dolphins4life]

The cloth may be fully stretched, buts Higgins does not appear to hindered from running in any way.  Also, this grab is accompanied by an attempt to make a play on the ball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZQI3DOUL6o&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=1

Here's a similar jersey tug not called

This is a clear grab and pull of the jersey, but was not flagged because the defender attempted to make a play on the ball, and actually HELPED the receiver by pulling him towards the ball

And another (go to the three minute mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxZiLGURLwA&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=2

This another uncalled jersey grab and pull.  The defender is making a play on the ball, and no flag is thrown.

And another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQmEKcyAeI

This is also clearly grabbing the jersey, but also was not flagged.  This is again, because the defender is trying to make a play on the ball, and had GAINED position on the receiver before the tug.  If the receiver had jumped first, a flag likely would have been thrown

And another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7i5FVY7gXg

This is a jersey grab not called because it does not significantly affect the receiver.  He still ran his route and had a chance to make a play on the ball.

Like I said, jersey grabs are often not called unless they clearly affect the receiver.  And sometimes not even then.  

Here is an example of jersey grab that was flagged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Holv5CsRSaQ

This is a clear grab, that CLEARLY impacts the receivers ability to catch the ball, from which he has no chance to recover from.  The defender makes no attempt to make a play on the ball.

My point is that jersey grabs exist and are called on a spectrum.  Often, only the most egregious are flagged.  Many times, grabs in the middle or at the less egregious side of the spectrum are not called.  The key is to be consistent with calling them.  Some people think the referees do not call them consistently

[Dave Gray]

The cloth may be fully stretched, buts Higgins does not appear to hindered from running in any way. 

Maybe he's not hindered, but maybe it allows the defensive player to keep pace with a receiver who is otherwise getting away from him -- think of it like the two players are connected with a rubber band.

The bottom line is that it's possible, if not likely, the defensive player is beat and cannot keep pace with the receiver, resulting in a TD, if he doesn't hold that guy's jersey to keep him close.

It doesn't really matter if it was PI or holding in terms of the picture -- that just matters as to when they say the foul occurred vs. when the ball was thrown.  And I may not be correct, but I think the penalty in this case is identical because they're close to the goal line.