Nineteen children under the age of 10 killed in TX school shooting

[Dave Gray]

I don't know squat about this, but is there an expectation that cops put their lives on the line to protect civilians?  I'm being literal -- is it asked of them to do something that can get them killed, or is it at the cop's discretion as the scene?

[ArtieChokePhin]

I don't know squat about this, but is there an expectation that cops put their lives on the line to protect civilians?  I'm being literal -- is it asked of them to do something that can get them killed, or is it at the cop's discretion as the scene?

Damn right there is an expectation.  Cops and firefighters are your soldiers that don't get deployed to foreign places.  They are expected to put their life on the line to protect yours.

And we should give them the same respect we give soldiers for doing so.

[Dave Gray]

Damn right there is an expectation. 

Is that your expectation or an actual expectation of the job?  I was under the impression that it's not....I think I'd heard that before.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know squat about this, but is there an expectation that cops put their lives on the line to protect civilians?

No.  Unlike soldiers, police have no duty to protect the public, as per a 1989 Supreme Court ruling.

Soldiers who behaved in the way these police did would be instantly court-martialed and would be headed to Leavenworth for a long time.

[Spider-Dan]

I really hope you are referring to the officers in the video and not all officers. I think things like the Pulse shooting have proved otherwise. In fact many police are former miltary who actually have experience in war zones. There are local shootouts on local levels that happen all too often and the police agresssively go after the shooter. Like the sorry arse SRO in the Parkland shootings, these are isolated instances.

In this entire thread, you have yet to voice a single word of criticism for the Uvalde PD and how they handled this debacle.  And upon the release of this video, the first comment you have is... you'd better be talking about only the cops in this video!  Priorities must be maintained.

Any cop who defends the action in this video is just as bad as the cops in the video.  Police in this country act like a gang, with a code of omerta just like the mafia; the cops who may not themselves be directly taking corrupt action will pull out every stop to defend and obstruct attempts to hold corrupt cops accountable.  And the officers that DO attempt to bring corrupt cops to justice are punished by their fellow officers under the very same code.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I really hope you are referring to the officers in the video and not all officers. I think things like the Pulse shooting have proved otherwise. In fact many police are former miltary who actually have experience in war zones. There are local shootouts on local levels that happen all too often and the police agresssively go after the shooter. Like the sorry arse SRO in the Parkland shootings, these are isolated instances.

Pulse is *YOUR* best example of police officers acting bravely to save others.  You choose this as the best example of cops acting bravely.  

It should be noted that of the 49 killed and 58 injured, none of the cops lost their lives in the incident and one suffered a very minor injury.    
It took the police approximately THREE HOURS to confront and kill the perpetrator.

Like in Uvalde it is impossible to know how many of the 49 that died could have been saved if they received medical attention earlier, like in Uvalde it is impossible to know how many victims would not have been shot if the police engaged earlier drawing his gun fire away from civilians and towards the police.  

But what most certainly is known that at the Pulse night club just like at Uvalde the police placed their own safety above saving others.  This is shown both by length of time it took to engage and the almost complete lack of police injuries and death.  

And like in Uvalde law enforcement did its utmost to protect the reputations of the police that engaged in cowardice behavior.  Investigations into the police were heavily redacted.  Footage was hidden from public scrutiny.    

What you claim is the best example of police acting bravely.  Is in fact police acting like the cowards they are.  Police didn't risk their lives to save other they waited as long as possible let many die and then only well after there was more than enough fire power on the scene to kill the perpetrator with almost no risk to the officers did they engage. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

In this entire thread, you have yet to voice a single word of criticism for the Uvalde PD and how they handled this debacle.  And upon the release of this video, the first comment you have is... you'd better be talking about only the cops in this video!  Priorities must be maintained.

Implicitly he admitted the Uvalde PD fucked up while blaming the "defund the police" movement for diverting training resources.  

[Spider-Dan]

So he assigned fault to the "defund the police" movement.
Again, not a single word of criticism for the Uvalde PD. They did the best they could while being constantly undermined by the wokesters!

[Fau Teixeira]

has police actually been defunded really ? .. cause it doesn't look like it

[CF DolFan]

In this entire thread, you have yet to voice a single word of criticism for the Uvalde PD and how they handled this debacle.  And upon the release of this video, the first comment you have is... you'd better be talking about only the cops in this video!  Priorities must be maintained.

Any cop who defends the action in this video is just as bad as the cops in the video.  Police in this country act like a gang, with a code of omerta just like the mafia; the cops who may not themselves be directly taking corrupt action will pull out every stop to defend and obstruct attempts to hold corrupt cops accountable.  And the officers that DO attempt to bring corrupt cops to justice are punished by their fellow officers under the very same code.

Sorry, I didn't realize my criticism of the police involved was required for this thread. While immediatley I didn't have many facts on the case ( So i didn't criticize them) it has been proven that in fact they failed miserably in their response. I still don't know why it was so bad but I'd be pretty embarrased and sick with myself if that was me. 

In general I caution to criticize police because most times it is proven they acted in the right. More people jump the gun to attack them than support them and are typically incorrect about most facts of the situation. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

[CF DolFan]

has police actually been defunded really ? .. cause it doesn't look like it

It has in extreme liberal cities and as a result crime is way up in places like Portland, St Paul, Philly and New York City.

[Spider-Dan]

It has in extreme liberal cities and as a result crime is way up in places like Portland, St Paul, Philly and New York City.

Since you seem to be confident in your response, please elaborate.

In which ways have police been "defunded" in those cities?
Has crime in the cited cities increased relative to 2019 (i.e. before the pandemic and George Floyd)?
Has crime also increased in large cities located in deep-red states where "defund the police" has no power?

It would be pretty silly to blame "defund the police" for a crime increase in NYC and Portland if crime also increased in St. Louis and Dallas, right?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It has in extreme liberal cities and as a result crime is way up in places like Portland, St Paul, Philly and New York City.

I don't know why I even bother to check, nothing you post is ever remotely true.

NYC 2023 police budget $5.53 billion.  2022 was $5.44 billion. That is an increase, less than the increase the police was asking for but still and increase. For context the Ukraine military budget for 2022 was $5.40 billion.  The NYC police department receives enough funding to go to war with Russia. 

Portland 21-22 $230 million.  Police department asked for $253.5 million.  CBO is recommending $240 million.  That is not defunding. (And larger than the military budget of Honduras).

Once again St. Paul saw increase as well.

Philly did see a budget cut because of an overall city budget problem not defending the police movement. 

 

[Spider-Dan]

Consider that if you gave me $100 two years ago and $200 last year, if you give me $250 this year then you have defunded me by $50.

This is the logic used any time we talk about spending on the military or law enforcement.  This logic is not used for any other sector of the government, especially not schools or social services.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Sorry, I didn't realize my criticism of the police involved was required for this thread. While immediatley I didn't have many facts on the case ( So i didn't criticize them) it has been proven that in fact they failed miserably in their response. I still don't know why it was so bad but I'd be pretty embarrased and sick with myself if that was me. 

In general I caution to criticize police because most times it is proven they acted in the right. More people jump the gun to attack them than support them and are typically incorrect about most facts of the situation. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

Rather than your critism of the cowards in Uvalde I am interested in your justificatilon for the police inaction at Pulse. Critism of Uvalde is trivially easy.  But for the life of me I can not fathom the rationale for waiting 3 hours to engage an active shooter, yet you cited this as an example of police acting bravely.  Why? How?