The elephant is the room (Roe)

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Why do you think SCOTUS even matters in that instance?  In that scenario we are headed for a civil war, regardless of who controls the Court.

Suppose Dems don't expand the Court, and Republicans throw out the vote to install Trump in 2024.  Would you be at all placated by the current SCOTUS ruling that it's OK?  Of course not, and neither will they in the opposite scenario.  It's a civil war, regardless.

True. But how the court rules could determine which side Gen. Mark Milley is on.  And which ever side he is on wins.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Abortion is now illegal in several states, but is it enforceable?  Even in the reddest of states if you randomly select 12 people a few of them will believe abortion ought be legal. Only one of them needs to follow their conscious rather than the jury instructions for a hung jury.  And seeing how six judges lied about Roe to get seated on the S.Ct, I, and I suspect many others, would have no problem lying during voir dior about our willingness to follow jury instructions and then not follow them.  Just takes 1 out of 12.

[ArtieChokePhin]

I think this guy would say otherwise:



See, in the last civil war, when it was the rugged individualist conservatives fighting against the soft liberal city slickers from the north, them good 'ol boys got their asses whooped.  As you guys inadvertently point out every time you gleefully insist we don't live in a democracy: there are a lot more of us than there are of you.  (And this is before we get to the fact that you're not likely to have many black Southerners joining the Army of the New Confederacy.)  Seems to me that if there's another civil war, whichever side the South is on is the side that's going to lose.

That all being said: even though it's pretty clear that conservatives would lose another civil war, it would still be bad for everyone, and we should avoid it if possible.

Once again, your delusions keep you blinded from the truth.   Lincoln and his group were Republicans.

https://riponsociety.org/article/why-lincoln-was-a-republican/

[stinkfish]

Why has this thread devolved into a Civil War the sequel thread? It’s silly.

[Spider-Dan]

Once again, your delusions keep you blinded from the truth.   Lincoln and his group were Republicans.

Lincoln was a liberal Northerner, who defeated the conservative traitors from the South.
The Republicans used to be the party of liberalism while the Democrats were the party of conservatism.  Those roles switched in the 20th century.
That's why I said "liberal" and "conservative" rather than "Democrat" and "Republican."

[Spider-Dan]

Why has this thread devolved into a Civil War the sequel thread? It’s silly.

Because conservatives are unable to lose elections without threatening violence or enacting it.

So when they violate norms (but not laws) to get their desired outcomes, libs are supposed to suck it and cry harder.  But if libs do the same back to them, we're suddenly talking about secession and Second Amendment remedies.

If Democrats react to Roe's overturning by expanding the court, conservatives will immediately start screaming about taking up arms.

[Fau Teixeira]

The ruling was grotesque .. but I can't expect anything else from the religious right.

Good thing the democrats fundraised on it .. that made everyone really appreciate their effort here.

[CF DolFan]

Pro-life is an awful position.  You're here talking about "a mother's fault" like a woman having sex is shameful and punishable.  What in the actual fuck is wrong with you?

It's no more her fault than it is the guy's who has to pay for said child for at least 18 years. Why is he held more personally responsible than she is for a decision to have sex that went in a different way than he had hoped?  

The Supreme Court did not outlaw abortion. They simply pointed out that the laws being put before them could not be measured aginst the previous ruling becuase there isn't a "right" established in the constitution to support it.  Like most controversial laws it will come down to the state to decide what it's citizen's want. As we've seen already there ar plenty of large companies and rich people willing to send people to which ever state will support it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It's no more her fault than it is the guy's who has to pay for said child for at least 18 years. Why is he held more personally responsible than she is for a decision to have sex that went in a different way than he had hoped?  

How delusional do you have to be to claim men bear a greater portion of the burden of unwanted pregnancy. Probably just as delusional to think systematic racism exists against whites or that Christians are discriminate against vs non-christians in the US.  Other delusional falsehoods you have advanced.

The law upheld doesn't have exceptions for health of mother or rape.

How does this sound for a law, "If a women is denied an abortion and dies due to complications of the pregnancy the father is to be executed.". Seems like a rediculus law?  Maybe, but explain how it is any more rediculus than having a woman die, when a doctor determines going full term will kill her.

[CF DolFan]

How delusional do you have to be to claim men bear a greater portion of the burden of unwanted pregnancy. Probably just as delusional to think systematic racism exists against whites or that Christians are discriminate against vs non-christians in the US.  Other delusional falsehoods you have advanced.

The law upheld doesn't have exceptions for health of mother or rape.

How does this sound for a law, "If a women is denied an abortion and dies due to complications of the pregnancy the father is to be executed.". Seems like a rediculus law?  Maybe, but explain how it is any more rediculus than having a woman die, when a doctor determines going full term will kill her.

HAHAHA .... I always look forward to your over-dramatic artificial take on things.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

HAHAHA .... I always look forward to your over-dramatic artificial take on things.

Overdramatic?  You still haven't explained the rationale for banning abortion for a raped 12 year old that will die if she goes full term.  Because that is what this law demands.

[CF DolFan]

Overdramatic?  You still haven't explained the rationale for banning abortion for a raped 12 year old that will die if she goes full term.  Because that is what this law demands.

I have no idea which "law" you are talking about but I never explained anything on abortion and certainly not my feelings towards it.  I just explained the SC didn't outlaw abortion but that there is no inherent right to personal autonomy in the Constitution. I  then pointed out how guys have been forced to be fathers for quite a while so if making them become parents is the argument then it's probably not a good one. Apparently you are ok with that but it is based on the same decision to have sex and seems a tad bit hypocritical to me but whatever.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I have no idea which "law" you are talking about but I never explained anything on abortion and certainly not my feelings towards it.  I just explained the SC didn't outlaw abortion but that there is no inherent right to personal autonomy in the Constitution. I  then pointed out how guys have been forced to be fathers for quite a while so if making them become parents is the argument then it's probably not a good one. Apparently you are ok with that but it is based on the same decision to have sex and seems a tad bit hypocritical to me but whatever.

The "law" I am talking about is the one upheld by this decision. And you know that quit playing that dumb.

This is not about becoming a parent.  It is about being forced to pregnant. And being allowed to make ones own healthcare decisions.

BTW this ruling will also be bad for men too. Very rare is the situation where the mother has an abortion and the father wants to be a father.  It happens (so don't bother posting a few isolated exceptions) So in many case men that would not otherwise be responsible for 18 years of child support will now be required to contribute to raising a child neither of them want.

[Spider-Dan]

The Supreme Court did not outlaw abortion. They simply pointed out that the laws being put before them could not be measured aginst the previous ruling becuase there isn't a "right" established in the constitution to support it.  Like most controversial laws it will come down to the state to decide what it's citizen's want. As we've seen already there ar plenty of large companies and rich people willing to send people to which ever state will support it.

Why are you even bothering with this BS take that you don't even believe?

The next time Republicans are able to capture Congress and the White House, we'll be seeing a federal abortion ban, and you'll be cheering wildly when it happens.  So there's no need to insult our intelligence with this "each state should decide what they want" nonsense.  Just come out and say your actual position: abortion is murdering babies and it should be banned everywhere.

[CF DolFan]

The "law" I am talking about is the one upheld by this decision. And you know that quit playing that dumb.

This is not about becoming a parent.  It is about being forced to pregnant. And being allowed to make ones own healthcare decisions.

BTW this ruling will also be bad for men too. Very rare is the situation where the mother has an abortion and the father wants to be a father.  It happens (so don't bother posting a few isolated exceptions) So in many case men that would not otherwise be responsible for 18 years of child support will now be required to contribute to raising a child neither of them want.

I agree with you on that point.

A few things I think will happen. There will always be states allowing abortion even into the third trimester. Most people that I know who are against abortion hate it being used as birth control. As more and more people are forced to travel for abortions that percentage will decrease dramatically. The very small pecentage of rape and incest that occur will be able to travel and get them. Like I said already tons of large corporations willing to dote out $4000 for some party girl to get rid of a bad decision. Hopefully this will make her take it more seriously next time, or the time after that, or the time after that.