absolutely no probable cause

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I will say this about interactions with police officers:

I don't think it's right for people in the public to be dicks to the police for no reason.  It doesn't give the cops the right to beat on you or shoot you, but in general, there are ways to refuse unlawful orders without being an asshole or combative.

An interaction with police from both sides should be professional.

In general I agree it is better to be nice to other people.  But I also believe that you deserve what you give.  The very first unlawful order by a cop is the cop being dickish, any dickish move is by the person being treated unfairly by the cop is fully justified. 

[Dave Gray]

I'm not really talking about when cops are unlawful.  But I'm saying that it's perfectly reasonable not to cooperate with police.  You have rights, you don't have to let them come in your house, search your car -- you don't owe them an explanation of where you're going or where you've been.

But the cops are gonna ask.  And in denying them those requests, I think people can be dicks and cause escalation.  Cops can be dicks, too.  It takes both parties.

As a society, we need to get to that middle ground where we can deny cops but still be respectful of the position.  ...just like we'd do with any profession.  I don't go to Publix and act a fool to the cashier.  There is a level of decorum.  We probably need better public education about our rights and what is expected of us through traffic stops and stuff.  Cops are scary...and that's coming from a white male with no record and no reason to be afraid of cops.  There's such a power discrepancy with any interaction.  I remember incidences from when I was a kid where I would be afraid to tell cops I was driving to a party I hadn't yet arrived to.  ....like....they ask you where you're going, when they really shouldn't.  It's none of your fucking business where I'm going.  But you can't say that.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^^ Re your Pubix analogy: would it be too much to ask that cops have at least a fraction of the skill set in deescalation that is required of a shift supervisor at a Pubix?

[Dave Gray]

^^^^ Re your Pubix analogy: would it be too much to ask that cops have at least a fraction of the skill set in deescalation that is required of a shift supervisor at a Pubix?

Not too much to ask.  I'm not defending cops who escalate.  But also, when cops don't escalate, we should let them do their job respectfully.  It doesn't mean we have to submit and comply.  But we don't have to be assholes.

There is a power discrepancy, so it's super important that both parties are respectful or shit can get out of hand really quick.