Flores vs McDaniel

[dolphins4life]

In this thread, we will set aside any differences in officiating and assume everything evened out for both seasons.

Somebody explain this to me.

Both coaches had the same record: 9-8

McDaniel had far more talent.

LITERALLY, the only difference between this year and last year was something out of Miami's control:  New England.

2021, the Patriots were 10-7
2022, they were 8-9

Therefore, in 2021, they made it.
In 2022, Miami made it

Why is Mcdaniel better than Flores?

[DenverFinFan]

McDaniel beat Buffalo and played them tough twice whereas Flo just got a beatdown every time.

When we were getting blown out by Baltimore we came out fighting and won it. I saw that fight several times this year and that is new.

When the playoffs were on the line McDaniel won the game with a 3rd string rookie.

McDaniel kept it together and his starting QB missed 6 games.

I’m not sure I agree with “much more” talent. Hill is a difference maker for sure but McD also didn’t have Byron Jones and had a ton of injuries as well.

To me it’s pretty clear who is better. But to be sure there needs to be improvement and it’s yet to be seen if he is going to have long term success or not.

[Dave Gray]

Flores never won an important game in Miam in 3 years.  In fact, I can't remember a big game where the team showed up and lost.  We always got beat down.

McDaniel made the playoffs in his 9-8 season.

Flores failed to help develop his QB.  McDaniel did.

Flores also got worse as the game went on.  With McDaniel, you had a chance at winning the game after halftime.

Flores was gruff and unlikable.  McDaniel has been a pleasure for the fans, media, players, and other coaches.

Flores was in his third season and wasn't getting better.  McDaniel was a rookie.

[EDGECRUSHER]

-Flores started his 3rd season 1-7 and broke the Jaguars 20 game losing streak.
-He chased away Minkah Fitzpatrick because he didn't know how to deal with personnel.
-He wasted the first 2 years of Tua's career by constantly sabotaging him.
-He ruined our shot at Joe Burrow by starting a 37 year old QB with no future on the team just because he didn't want to start a QB the team just blew a 2nd rounder on.
-He literally sued the team for nonsense and cried racism.
-His last 2 years we died at the end of the season, including humiliating defeats with our season on the line.
-Never developed a staff.

One of the worst head coaches in franchise history and we're still dealing with the damage he left by underdeveloping talent.

[dolphins4life]

To clinch the playoffs, Flores had to defeat the Raiders, a playoff contender, and the Bills, arguably the second best team in the AFC in 2020.  In 2021, he had to defeat the number one seeded Titans and the playoff bound Patriots to reach the playoffs.  They were 2-2 in those games.

McDaniel had to beat the dysfunctional Jets with a washed up quarterback.

Flores did win important games with Miami.  As I said earlier, he just didn't get the help from other teams that McDaniel did.  In 2020, how about the Raiders game?  Or the seven game winning streak in 2021.

How is McDaniel a pleasure?  During that losing streak, I didn't see anybody taking any pleasure.

You weren't seeing any "fight" during the first part of the year.  You were seeing the results of having the best WR corps in the league.  That's why they pulled off so many comebacks.

I doubt Flores would have pulled Tua in any game this year.  He pulled him in 2020 because he felt Fitzpatrick gave them a better chance to win, which in that case was true.

Given how successful Tannehill has been outside of Miami, do you think Burrow would have been as successful with Miami as he has been with KC.

McDaniel ended his first season with a 1-5, with a five game losing streak.  Flores ended his last season 7-1.  Both coaches won their final games that season.  It's just that Flores didn't get any outside help.

[Dave Gray]

Also, eye test.

We looked good and like we could play with any team in the league under McDaniel, when Tua was playing.

Under Flores, we limped along.  McDaniel was on his 3rd string QB by the end of the season and still made the playoffs because he had put the team in a position not to have to win every game for the rest of the year like Flores did.

[dolphins4life]

Also, eye test.

We looked good and like we could play with any team in the league under McDaniel, when Tua was playing.

Under Flores, we limped along.  McDaniel was on his 3rd string QB by the end of the season and still made the playoffs because he had put the team in a position not to have to win every game for the rest of the year like Flores did.

No he didn't.

The PATRIOTS and the JETS did this by collapsing like a neuron star (Family Guy Stewie reference.  OOOOH, I'm a PLAGARIZER) at the end of the 2022, which allowed Miami to lose five games in a row and still make the playoffs.

Flores, on the other hand, in 2020, needed one of three games to go his way at the end of 2020, and got NO HELP WHATSOEVER.

[dolphins4life]

-Flores started his 3rd season 1-7 and broke the Jaguars 20 game losing streak.
-He chased away Minkah Fitzpatrick because he didn't know how to deal with personnel.
-He wasted the first 2 years of Tua's career by constantly sabotaging him.
-He ruined our shot at Joe Burrow by starting a 37 year old QB with no future on the team just because he didn't want to start a QB the team just blew a 2nd rounder on.
-He literally sued the team for nonsense and cried racism.
-His last 2 years we died at the end of the season, including humiliating defeats with our season on the line.
-Never developed a staff.

One of the worst head coaches in franchise history and we're still dealing with the damage he left by underdeveloping talent.

Minkah was part of the 2019 sabotage

[Dave Gray]

You don't just get to credit a team for a loss and not credit the other team for a win.

I look at Flores' last year and he swept the Patriots, so that was good.  He beat them on the road with a rookie QB's first start by 1 point.

And he beat them to end the season, but we were already out of the playoffs, so who cares.

Other than that, he went on a stretch that included no playoff quality teams.  And that's fine; you can't help your schedule.  But when faced with a must win game against a playoff team, we didn't just lose.  We got blown out by 31 points.


Other playoff teams we played:
Bills - lost by 35
Raiders - lost by 3 (after leading by 12 early)
Bucs - lost by 33
Bills - lost by 15

Flores couldn't win games that mattered...he couldn't even be competitive in those games.


In his first year, McDaniel beat playoff teams when the season was still alive:
Buffalo
Baltimore

That last Flores year, Dolphins were -32 in point differential.
Under McDaniel, we were -2 (and again, on our 3rd string QB)


But most importantly.  Back up against the wall, McDaniel found a way to beat the Jets, without a QB....without a backup QB.
Flores got blown out.  Again.

[dolphins4life]

You don't just get to credit a team for a loss and not credit the other team for a win.

I look at Flores' last year and he swept the Patriots, so that was good.  He beat them on the road with a rookie QB's first start by 1 point.

And he beat them to end the season, but we were already out of the playoffs, so who cares.

Other than that, he went on a stretch that included no playoff quality teams.  And that's fine; you can't help your schedule.  But when faced with a must win game against a playoff team, we didn't just lose.  We got blown out by 31 points.


Other playoff teams we played:
Bills - lost by 35
Raiders - lost by 3 (after leading by 12 early)
Bucs - lost by 33
Bills - lost by 15

Flores couldn't win games that mattered...he couldn't even be competitive in those games.


In his first year, McDaniel beat playoff teams when the season was still alive:
Buffalo
Baltimore

That last Flores year, Dolphins were -32 in point differential.
Under McDaniel, we were -2 (and again, on our 3rd string QB)


But most importantly.  Back up against the wall, McDaniel found a way to beat the Jets, without a QB....without a backup QB.
Flores got blown out.  Again.

When did he beat them by one point in a rookie quarterback's first start?

2021 was Tua's second season.  It was 17-16, IIRC. 

Again, McDaniel only had to beat the pathetic Jets, after losing the Patriots and Packers.

Flores had to beat the best teams in the NFL to make the playoffs.

My eye test is that our offense was great in 2022, but the defense was atrocious.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Again, McDaniel only had to beat the pathetic Jets

The Jets in 2022 were nothing like the doormats of 2021 - they played tough all year and were in real playoff contention until week 13 when their injuries began racking up. Yes they lack an elite QB, but I definitely wouldn't label them as pathetic this season.

I think there's a pretty fair argument our AFC East division was a lot more even (and a lot tougher) this season than the last one under Flores.

[masterfins]

The Jets in 2022 were nothing like the doormats of 2021 - they played tough all year and were in real playoff contention until week 13 when their injuries began racking up. Yes they lack an elite QB, but I definitely wouldn't label them as pathetic this season.

I think there's a pretty fair argument our AFC East division was a lot more even (and a lot tougher) this season than the last one under Flores.

The Jets were pathetic by the last game of the season, and that's what's important.  Some people here make it sound like the Dolphins beat the reigning SB Champs to get in the playoffs, nothing could be further from the truth.

[masterfins]

-Flores started his 3rd season 1-7 and broke the Jaguars 20 game losing streak.
-He chased away Minkah Fitzpatrick because he didn't know how to deal with personnel.
-He wasted the first 2 years of Tua's career by constantly sabotaging him.
-He ruined our shot at Joe Burrow by starting a 37 year old QB with no future on the team just because he didn't want to start a QB the team just blew a 2nd rounder on.
-He literally sued the team for nonsense and cried racism.
-His last 2 years we died at the end of the season, including humiliating defeats with our season on the line.
-Never developed a staff.

One of the worst head coaches in franchise history and we're still dealing with the damage he left by underdeveloping talent.

Minkah Fitzpatrick never played on a team coached by Flores.  He left because of the Houston trade which was the best trade the Miami Dolphins ever made in their history, and that was on the GM anyways if you still want to blame someone.

Miami didn't die at the end of the season for Flores' last two seasons, in 2020 they finished 4-2 (9-3 if you want to go back a little further) and in 2021 they finished 5-1 (8-1 if you want to go back a little further).  Whereas McD finished the season 1-5, 1-6 if you count the playoffs.

I realize you have this hatred for Flores because he had the temerity to go out and win games and deprive you of your want of Burrows, but don't distort the facts.

[Spider-Dan]

Minkah Fitzpatrick never played on a team coached by Flores.

Minkah Fitzpatrick started two games under Flores, during which he had 8 solo tackles, 4 tackle assists, and one forced fumble+recovery.

He left because of the Houston trade which was the best trade the Miami Dolphins ever made in their history

Minkah Fitzpatrick had literally nothing to do with the HOU trade.  He was upset that he felt he was being used out of position (as a CB) by Flores, forced a trade to PIT, and subsequently made the All-Pro team as a safety 3 of the next 4 years.

Miami didn't die at the end of the season for Flores' last two seasons, in 2020 they finished 4-2 (9-3 if you want to go back a little further) and in 2021 they finished 5-1 (8-1 if you want to go back a little further).  Whereas McD finished the season 1-5, 1-6 if you count the playoffs.

Flores' incompetence in choosing a starting QB crippled this team in ways that are difficult to measure fully.  He should have been starting Josh Rosen (who the team traded a second-round pick for) in 2019, but chose not to for reasons that are still unclear (perhaps because Ross asked him to lose?).  He could have started Tua from day 1 (just as Burrow did in CIN), but chose to start Fitzmagic instead.  Then, the moment Fitz starts to play well, he benches him for Tua's first start... against one of the best defenses in the league.  When an undefeated Tua is facing a 10-point deficit in the fourth quarter against the Broncos, Flores yanks him... only for Fitztragic to throw a game-ending INT.  When a 5-2 Tua is trailing the Raiders by 3 points in the 4th quarter, Flores yanks him AGAIN.

Intentionally or not, Flores sabotaged the Dolphins to a massive extent.

[dolphins4life]

How was the Houston trade good for Miami?

Three years later, Houston has one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

Miami has one playoff appearance and no playoff wins.

I don't think Flores sabotaged Tua.  TUA DIDN'T HAVE TYREEK HILL FOR THE FLORES YEARS.  How is that hard to understand at all?