Superbowl

[dolphins4life]

Mmhm. I think the automatic first down on dholding should be changed and just a 10 for PI

First part sounds good, second part, I don't think so

[fyo]

Skip Bayless disagreed with the call on his show

The defender hoped he'd get away with it, but he fully admitted that he held and that the ruling was fine. It can be hard to tell from the video exactly how much the holding affected the route, especially considering there was a change of direction, but it really doesn't take much to cause the receiver to lose a yard.

Honestly, it's kind of hard discussing the validity of a penalty when the offender has admitted guilt.

[dolphins4life]

Two words:

XAVIEN


HOWARD

[fyo]

Two words:

XAVIEN


HOWARD

You keep saying this and it makes you seem like a bit an idiot, so please moderate your use.

As for X's use of hands, well, look at ANY good cornerback and you'll find the same. I'm not seeing anything particularly different with X compared to others. The simple fact is that corners have a tendency to get as close to the line as they can and since this line varies from ref to ref, good corners will push the envelope a bit more against certain refs.

Could we wish for greater consistency in refereeing? You bet, but your constant "but X" is tiresome.

[CF DolFan]

I'm curious ... I don't think most of you are country music fans so I was wondering if you guys liked Chris Stapleton singing the national anthem and if so ... was that your first time hearing him sing? He's one of the few today who bring that old school sound and is very popular.

Oronde Gadsen, Channing Crowder, and Marc Hochman are discussing how impressed they were and that he killed the national anthem. Hoch and Crowder were surprised as they hadn't heard him but Oronde said he could't believe they've never heard Tennessee Whiskey.

[Dave Gray]

I'm curious ... I don't think most of you are country music fans so I was wondering if you guys liked Chris Stapleton singing the national anthem and if so ... was that your first time hearing him sing? He's one of the few today who bring that old school sound and is very popular.

Funny you should ask.

I hate country music.  It's just not my thing at all.

But, I heard so many people saying how good he was so I listened to the performance.  And it was quite good.  It's still not my style, and while country-ish, it felt more bluesy to me but I thought he was really good.  I think that he's one of these guys where I can respect his talent, while realizing that I'm just not going to personally connect with the style.

[Sunstroke]

I'm curious ... I don't think most of you are country music fans so ...

I like country music quite a bit. Not nearly as much as classic rock and alternative, but I have several country playlists. One of them has 5-6 Stapleton songs on it, including Tennessee Whiskey, Broken Halos and Sometimes I Cry.  I enjoyed his take on the National Anthem a lot...thought it was one of the better versions I have heard in quite a while.

The genre of music that I really don't have a whole of of interest in are pop like Taylor Swift (I honestly cannot name a single song from her) or Rihanna...or rap music of pretty much any style.

[stinkfish]

I mostly listen to country. I like Stapleton’s stuff. But he didn’t kill the Star Spangled Banner. He murdered it, like everyone one else who sings it just to hear themselves sing. I’m a traditionalist. The Star Spangled Banner was written as a waltz. Meant to be played and sung as a waltz. Example. Listen to the way the USMC band or any other military branch band plays the Star Spangled Banner. They do it right. It should take less than 2 minutes to perform. Do it right or don’t do it.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Rewrite the holding and illegal contact rules to say,

"If, in the referee's judgement, the hold does not significantly impact the receiver, the ref should not throw the flag"

Maybe this is an argument for having a sky judge, or somebody with a second opinion.

Anybody got any other ideas?

Rewrite the rules, but take the referee's judgement bit out as much as humanly possible. It's what leads to inconsistencies and what's the most frustrating aspect of this.

The NFL have modified or tweaked the rules in the name of fairness over the years, but have increasingly allowed these inconsistencies to happen this way. The last ones were ridiculous, whereby a defender simply by turning his head to see the ball constitutes a genuine attempt at playing the ball (which in my opinion is rubbish - at a bare minimum there should be some contact by a defender with the ball to even have this excuse). Players are coached to do this and routinely get away with it, so on the odd occasion a flag gets thrown everyone wonders why now, and not every other time during the game? Defenders are also coached to grab the moment they think they could get beat, hoping they get away with it or at worst it draws a holding penalty instead of PI. The way the rules are being refereed has allowed this to happen.

It used to be black and white in regards to PI back in the 1980s-1990s - if a defender touches the receiver a yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the ball hits his hands, a flag gets thrown. There was no such thing as incidental contact (including things like tangles of legs). The only exception is if the defender (genuinely) has a clear path to intercept the ball and are attempting to do so in which case they effectively become the receiver - or if the offensive player instigates contact (as in an offensive PI/pick play).

To be honest I'd prefer that to the mess we have now, because at least it should be more consistent. Say there is no such thing as (passing) defensive holding, and make PI a minimum 10 yards or spot of the penalty whichever is longer. Sure you will have defensive players and coaches bitching about it being too hard on them, but they will adjust to it like everything else (as they should, they are paid enough for it). People will bitch about the number of penalties initially handed out too, but the game will open up more offensively, and eventually the defenses will adjust to it so it should eventually even out.

[Downunder Dolphan]

I hate country music.  It's just not my thing at all.

But, I heard so many people saying how good he was so I listened to the performance.  And it was quite good.  It's still not my style, and while country-ish, it felt more bluesy to me but I thought he was really good.  I think that he's one of these guys where I can respect his talent, while realizing that I'm just not going to personally connect with the style.

I'm also not a fan of country music, but I really liked the anthem - it definitely had notable elements of blues and soul as much as country, so I'm not surprised it appealed to a wide audience.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Two words:

XAVIEN


HOWARD

I have a two word reply to this, but it may be considered personal abuse so I'll leave you to work out what it is.

(I'll give you a clue - one of the words begins with an F )

[Pappy13]

In my opinion the reason that PI is such a problem is because offensive pass interference isn't called nearly enough. You see push offs by WR's all the time that go unpunished. If you started to call that everytime the offensive player put his hands on the defensive back to get seperation, then you wouldn't have the problem with the defensive back grabbing onto WR's to stay close. Call it both ways equally and you would see a far cleaner game and fewer PI calls.

[DenverFinFan]

I'm curious ... I don't think most of you are country music fans so I was wondering if you guys liked Chris Stapleton singing the national anthem and if so ... was that your first time hearing him sing? He's one of the few today who bring that old school sound and is very popular.

Oronde Gadsen, Channing Crowder, and Marc Hochman are discussing how impressed they were and that he killed the national anthem. Hoch and Crowder were surprised as they hadn't heard him but Oronde said he could't believe they've never heard Tennessee Whiskey.

I’m against the national anthem it’s a terrible song and I always skip that part.

Also, country music was dying by the 80s and was pretty much dead by mid 90s. Still love some classics though.

[Dave Gray]

I mostly listen to country. I like Stapleton’s stuff. But he didn’t kill the Star Spangled Banner. He murdered it, like everyone one else who sings it just to hear themselves sing. I’m a traditionalist. The Star Spangled Banner was written as a waltz. Meant to be played and sung as a waltz. Example. Listen to the way the USMC band or any other military branch band plays the Star Spangled Banner. They do it right. It should take less than 2 minutes to perform. Do it right or don’t do it.

I fully, 100% disagree.

The Star Spangled banner is best when filtered through whoever is performing it.  Not only is it musically interesting, but it's the very meaning of America.  You bring your own personal flavor.  This piece of music is close to me.  I've played it literally hundreds of times when I was in various levels of band.  I've gone so far as to write my own arrangement.


As for cool versions, check out this arrangement by Igor Stravinsky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbHnDs8W36E&t=67s

It's traditional as hell, but he really stresses the dissonant notes.  At 1:06, his griminess on the word "land" is so good.  It feels like it was written by a Russian Immigrant and that's what makes it great.

[dolphins4life]

Rewrite the rules, but take the referee's judgement bit out as much as humanly possible. It's what leads to inconsistencies and what's the most frustrating aspect of this.

The NFL have modified or tweaked the rules in the name of fairness over the years, but have increasingly allowed these inconsistencies to happen this way. The last ones were ridiculous, whereby a defender simply by turning his head to see the ball constitutes a genuine attempt at playing the ball (which in my opinion is rubbish - at a bare minimum there should be some contact by a defender with the ball to even have this excuse). Players are coached to do this and routinely get away with it, so on the odd occasion a flag gets thrown everyone wonders why now, and not every other time during the game? Defenders are also coached to grab the moment they think they could get beat, hoping they get away with it or at worst it draws a holding penalty instead of PI. The way the rules are being refereed has allowed this to happen.

It used to be black and white in regards to PI back in the 1980s-1990s - if a defender touches the receiver a yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the ball hits his hands, a flag gets thrown. There was no such thing as incidental contact (including things like tangles of legs). The only exception is if the defender (genuinely) has a clear path to intercept the ball and are attempting to do so in which case they effectively become the receiver - or if the offensive player instigates contact (as in an offensive PI/pick play).

To be honest I'd prefer that to the mess we have now, because at least it should be more consistent. Say there is no such thing as (passing) defensive holding, and make PI a minimum 10 yards or spot of the penalty whichever is longer. Sure you will have defensive players and coaches bitching about it being too hard on them, but they will adjust to it like everything else (as they should, they are paid enough for it). People will bitch about the number of penalties initially handed out too, but the game will open up more offensively, and eventually the defenses will adjust to it so it should eventually even out.

The rule is specifically written for the referees to make judgements.  If it wasn't, it wouldn't be humanly possible to cover a receiver. 

"Beyond the five yard zone, incidental contact may exist between receiver and defensive back"  The ref judges if the contact with incidental

Actions that do not constitute pass interference include:

"Laying a hand on a receiver THAT DOES NOT RESTRICT HIM"  It's the referee's judgement if the receiver was restricted.