Banning TikTok

[Dave Gray]

I wanted to get in on this before this gets split down political lines.


It's a tough call.  I certainly understand why banning it could be beneficial but at the same time you don't want the government interfering in private business willy-nilly.

I don't particularly care about the data security portion of things.  Plenty of things put your data at risk and that's a personal choice.

I do think that a case could be made that it's a national security issue.  I don't like the idea of a foreign government (especially a potential adversary) controlling the content while also not allowing their own population to see that content.  They could definitely start to promote harmful misinformation or seeding whatever kind of radicalism that could do long-term damage.

I think the best case here is for TikTok to be controlled by an American company....essentially be forced to sell.

[CF DolFan]

I don't think it's a political issue as both sides have had concerns. Rumors online has it that Meta is in everyone's pocket to get rid of them but who knows for sure? I love the app but agree with reports it's dumbing down our gray matter as we spend mindless hours just watching nothing.

[Dave Gray]

^ I see a lot of "you wanna ban TikTok but you don't care about [whatever]" so I imagine it's only a matter of time before it's split down political lines.



This is totally a hypothetical and there's no evidence that's it's happening, but it's totally possible that China could start pushing extremist stuff...any kind.  It could be hoax stuff or promote strikes to hurt our economy or subtle violence or whatever else.  And if they're giving us that product while simultaneously blocking it from their own population, that's a potential threat.  They can show their own kids math videos and show ours the Tide Pod challenge with the specific intent to cause damage.  That's just a blatant example, but I think that it would be even more nefarious if it was a slow trickle of Anti-American sentiment over decades.

I hate to outright ban something that people like, but these are special circumstances.  I also wish that Meta wouldn't be the one to purchase them, since they already eat up so much of the American social media landscape.

[CF DolFan]

^ I see a lot of "you wanna ban TikTok but you don't care about [whatever]" so I imagine it's only a matter of time before it's split down political lines.



This is totally a hypothetical and there's no evidence that's it's happening, but it's totally possible that China could start pushing extremist stuff...any kind.  It could be hoax stuff or promote strikes to hurt our economy or subtle violence or whatever else.  And if they're giving us that product while simultaneously blocking it from their own population, that's a potential threat.  They can show their own kids math videos and show ours the Tide Pod challenge with the specific intent to cause damage.  That's just a blatant example, but I think that it would be even more nefarious if it was a slow trickle of Anti-American sentiment over decades.

I hate to outright ban something that people like, but these are special circumstances.  I also wish that Meta wouldn't be the one to purchase them, since they already eat up so much of the American social media landscape.

China already limits what and how much time their kids can use Tik Tok so it's kind of already happening. I agree with you about Meta. With Elon buried at Twitter I'm not sure who else would be good for it. 

[Dave Gray]

From my understanding, China can't access TikTok at all.  They have their own TikTok with their own content.  They cannot see the info that we have in our version.  If everyone had access to it, I'd be much less freaked out by it.

[Phishfan]

I don't use it but don't care if people do. I also don't care if it gets banned.

[pondwater]

I don't understand how TikTok even became a thing. I mean, you have Facebook, Instagram, and Youtube for people to post their stupidity and retardedness for everyone to see. How is this app any different?

I don't use it, but have seen many shared posts from TikTok. Shit man, that stupid annoying female voice that narrates those videos makes me want to slit my wrists and set myself on fire.

[Dave Gray]

I'm getting to the point where I "don't understand" new social media technologies.  It's not that I literally don't understand them, but I don't really see what they're for or how they differentiate.

So, with TikTok, I have it on my phone and I occasionally get sent a clip from someone, but I never go browse it on my own.  Everything seems too brief and the pace of watching things is hectic.  It's like trying to watch TV while someone is changing the channels and browsing.

[fyo]

I don't understand how TikTok even became a thing. I mean, you have Facebook, Instagram, and Youtube for people to post their stupidity and retardedness for everyone to see. How is this app any different?

I don't use it, but have seen many shared posts from TikTok. Shit man, that stupid annoying female voice that narrates those videos makes me want to slit my wrists and set myself on fire.

TikTok is actually very different from Facebook and pretty much all the other social media platforms (with the exception of "copies" like YouTube Shorts). Both in terms of the content and in terms of how the app works from a user (consumer) perspective, as well as the network topology.

Basically, TikTok is short videos in portrait mode.

Videos can be made in whatever way the creator wants. There's no requirement for using "that stupid annoying female voice" - you can do whatever you want. It's just that the default tools to make these short clips can result in some fairly cookie-cutter approaches.

The main *video* difference from something like is the aspect ratio and duration. TikTok has expanded the maximum length a few times and is now at 10 minutes (I think), but the original limit of 60 seconds still dominates the platform, helped by the algorithm actively prioritizing shorter videos in addition to some relatively aggressive file size limits forcing longer videos to use a lower bitrate. The standard aspect ratio is 9:16 (portrait mode).

As a user (consumer), TikTok is a *completely* different beast. While Facebook and YouTube will recommend new posts/videos, that's not the main way people engage with those sites/apps. Imagine if YouTube showed you a different, random (algorithmically selected) video every time you swiped. In a way, it's like Tinder for videos. Swipe to the next video quickly, and the algorithm assumes you didn't like it, while if you engage (watch longer, read comments, like, etc) it assumes you like it. Based on how you interact with videos, TikTok's algorithm will keep serving you new, pseudo-random videos.

There are other differences as well, e.g. in terms of monetization, but basically it's just swiping quickly to new short video clips in portrait mode.

[Dave Gray]

I don't really like the idea of banning it so far as disallowing people to see the content that want to.  But if we were to do anything, it would be to force a sale and not to allow the company to operate in America.

I'm weird about censoring stuff and I don't want that done outright.  It's a fine line.  I think the best solution is to make them sell in order to operate and make money within the borders.

[fyo]

The best solution would, IMHO, be to implement proper privacy safeguards for everyone and create transparency around algorithms used to populate feeds (and rule on court cases, evaluate job applications / loand / mortgages / etc). Hiding behind an algorithm makes it possible to violate discrimination laws and manipulate public opinion. At the very least, courts need to be able to audit these things if suspicions arise.

[Dave Gray]

The best solution would, IMHO, be to implement proper privacy safeguards for everyone and create transparency around algorithms used to populate feeds (and rule on court cases, evaluate job applications / loand / mortgages / etc). Hiding behind an algorithm makes it possible to violate discrimination laws and manipulate public opinion. At the very least, courts need to be able to audit these things if suspicions arise.

This sounds pretty reasonable.  I agree with the sentiment.

It's a weird balancing act.

[Dave Gray]

In related news, Florida has banned social media for those under 16 without parental permission.  And for those until 14 even with parental permission.

Again, I'm kinda torn.  I ultimately think the dangers of outright government bans are probably too much a risk in the other direction, but I do appreciate an attempt at a solution.  I haven't looked at the bill yet, and I think it's largely unenforceable, but I wonder what legally constitutes social media.  I consider youtube to be social media.  Are we not going to allow kids to use youtube?

[Spider-Dan]

In related news, Florida has banned social media for those under 16 without parental permission.  And for those until 14 even with parental permission.

Ladies and gentlemen, the "Free State of Florida."

You want to send your kid to public school without being vaccinated against deadly infectious diseases?  We respect your solemn rights as a parent.
You want to allow your 13-year-old to use TikTok or Facebook?  The state must intervene to protect your child's safety.

[Dave Gray]

I realize that from a governance standpoint, it's ideologically inconsistent.  "Parental rights" except ....not like that.

But, these social media platforms are a problem for youth.  I'm experiencing it now.  They're a problem for adults, too, honestly.  We need to get a hold on that.  I'm not sure how much of that is through outright restriction, but it's something we need to tackle.