Tua is H1M - haters, what else do you need?

[MaineDolFan]

This is not a knee jerk reaction to the silly video game score and stats yesterday.  I'd like to know for anyone who hasn't come around on Tua yet, what else does the man need to do?  What is not a valid argument is "stay healthy."  You could wind up with an illness or disability yourself, you don't have a crystal ball.  He is healthy now.

What I am starting to hear from the reluctant come-arounds is Tua is "starting to look pretty good."  Yes, he may have taken steps to help protect himself from head injuries from last year, and, yes, he also may have taken a step as a player.  But my guy is playing at the same bonkers level he played at last year before the first concussion and no one was giving him any love.

Through the injuries last year Tua tossed at a 25/8 and 105 QB rating clip before having to shut it down.  It felt like Miami couldn't run the ball to save their lives last year, it was all on his shoulders (and the league started to figure out the offense a little as the season wore on).  The line is playing like fiends this year, they look great.  I thought they looked really good through the first two games, having Armstead back made an even bigger difference.  Miami seems to be running the ball at will, Tua is throwing the ball to everyone; the distribution is great. 

Tua has complete command of this offense, and team.  In this season the offense has ground out a back and forth, high flying offensive punch for punch road win.  They have weathered an elite defense (on the road) and now have come home and schooled a team and showed out.  Will there be bumps?  Of course.  When there are we better hope we also hear zero calls for Mike White.

[fyo]

Did you catch the halftime report?

Phil Simms: "This offense is about Tyreek Hill. That's what makes it."

Nate Burleson: "But it's Tyreek Hill. When you have a guy like that, boom, it makes things easy."

Even if Tua continues at the (very) high level of last year and so far this year, there are going to be a lot of talking heads making comments like the ones above.

Last season, I couldn't count the number of times I heard the talking heads saying that Tua would just throw it to Hill and Hill would get a bunch of yards after the catch. Even on this forum someone said just a couple of days ago something about Hill's YAC. The truth is, even with the awesome game yesterday, Hill is only *average* in terms of YAC/reception. For a #1 receiver, he's significantly below average. Even in KC, yards after the catch wasn't what Hill did.

For Tua to get to the next level of respect, I think he has to play dominantly in a bunch of games without Hill. He can get all the wins, keep being at the top in QBR, passer rating, EPA, DVOA, completed air yards, whatever. The narrative is just going to be about Hill for *some* and the only way to get beyond that is if Hill isn't in the equation.

[Fau Teixeira]

I saw tua compared to joe montana the other day .. so i think TV people are coming around.

[pondwater]

Yesterday the Tua haters on Facebook were saying, "without Tyreek carrying Tua he would just be another average nobody QB in the league". It doesn't matter if Tua gets MVP and wins the Superbowl 84-13, he'll always be downplayed by a certain percentage of people.

[AQNOR]

Sometimes it takes QBs a little while to develop.   Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow didn't do much their rookie years  but took off in their second years.  Josh Allen didn't do much his first two years.  Look at him now.  Jalen Hurts also had rough goings his first two years.

Tua proved right away that he could sling it.   My concern always has been him getting hit and sustaining concussions.  So far, that hasn't been a problem this year.   Sometimes the best ability is availability.

[Dave Gray]

The issue that I've had with the haters isn't even the criticisms of Tua.  That's fine -- you can find holes in someone's game or be concerned or whatever.  It's that the same standard of success didn't apply to other QBs.

Tua was criticized for how he was playing WHILE PLAYING WELL.  He wasn't given credit for his accomplishments.  "I could be a great QB with Hill and Waddle."  "He got a lot of yards, but he's hitting open guys and they're getting YAC" (which was always a lie).  Herbert got credit for being the better player (and maybe he was) but with worse results.  Tua would get blasted by these people for every mistake and Herbert wouldn't.

It was the double standard.

It was people saying that his mechanics "looked weird" or "didn't pass the eye test" despite playing better than any other QBs in the league.  It was being critical of his not being team captain and all that other bullshit.

But even worse that that....even worse is that they didn't just learn and eat crow.  Once we see Tua under McDaniel and the narrative of Tua getting undermined by Flores and all of that started to come out and they see what he is, they still have a tepid response and don't give him full credit.  He's one of the best players in the game of football.

[Brian Fein]

As a guy that's usually on the other side of that coin -

"haters gonna hate"

It takes a lot of guts to admit you were wrong about a guy.  I'm a Brady hater - always will be.  Tua haters always will be Tua haters.

Tua is objectively better than Herbert the past 2 seasons and people still can't give him credit.  The double-standard is strong and people will continue to perpetuate it.  Hill and Waddle aren't worth a damn with a QB that can get them the ball in stride.

Just save those receipts...

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

I don't post often but I still keep up on the forums regularly. This post however I need to respond to.

I wrote Tua off from day 1, hated the pick all because I wanted Herbert. While I still think Herbert is a great QB I am here to say I was wrong and think we made the better pick. Tua has made a believer out of me. I started coming around last year as he started the season on fire and looked really good before being de-railed by concussions. I am happy to be wrong on this one. Tua is the franchise QB we have been clamoring for since Marino retired. He has the intangibles and the skillset to be a major force for many more years in this league and I am here for it. This team has me super jacked for the first time since the 90's and I believe they are serious contenders if the team as a whole can stay healthy.

So to answer your question Maine I, for one, don't need anything else. I am sold and happy to admit I am no longer a Tua hater!!!!!

[Dave Gray]

I don't post often but I still keep up on the forums regularly. This post however I need to respond to.

I wrote Tua off from day 1, hated the pick all because I wanted Herbert. While I still think Herbert is a great QB I am here to say I was wrong and think we made the better pick. Tua has made a believer out of me.

I absolve you of your sins.  Let us speak no more of it.  Go forth and walk with Tua.

[Pappy13]

This is not a knee jerk reaction to the silly video game score and stats yesterday.  I'd like to know for anyone who hasn't come around on Tua yet, what else does the man need to do?  What is not a valid argument is "stay healthy."  You could wind up with an illness or disability yourself, you don't have a crystal ball.  He is healthy now.

What I am starting to hear from the reluctant come-arounds is Tua is "starting to look pretty good."  Yes, he may have taken steps to help protect himself from head injuries from last year, and, yes, he also may have taken a step as a player.  But my guy is playing at the same bonkers level he played at last year before the first concussion and no one was giving him any love.

Through the injuries last year Tua tossed at a 25/8 and 105 QB rating clip before having to shut it down.  It felt like Miami couldn't run the ball to save their lives last year, it was all on his shoulders (and the league started to figure out the offense a little as the season wore on).  The line is playing like fiends this year, they look great.  I thought they looked really good through the first two games, having Armstead back made an even bigger difference.  Miami seems to be running the ball at will, Tua is throwing the ball to everyone; the distribution is great.  

Tua has complete command of this offense, and team.  In this season the offense has ground out a back and forth, high flying offensive punch for punch road win.  They have weathered an elite defense (on the road) and now have come home and schooled a team and showed out.  Will there be bumps?  Of course.  When there are we better hope we also hear zero calls for Mike White.

If you don't think that Tua and the entire offense looks better this year compared to last year, I don't know what to tell ya. Edit: Ok, to be fair, maybe I was just thinking back to later in the year and not earlier in the year because I went back and looked at the box scores from last year and you're right that Tua was incredibly good for most of the year last year as well. About on par with what he's done this year if not better then stumbled a bit in December. Still Tua looks better this year, the offensive line looks better, the running game looks better. Compared to prior to Mike McDaniels taking over the play calling it's night and day.

I'll be the first to admit that Tua has shown me more in the last 2 years than I thought him capable of. He is playing at an MVP level now that he definitely wasn't playing at a couple years ago. So if you want me to say that I'm on board with Tua being the QB of the future, yeah I'm on board with that now. Don't see anyone else coming in and playing better in this offense honestly. The offense is perfectly tailored to what Tua does best which is exactly what the coach should do, but you don't always see that happen. Kudo's to Tua, McDaniel and whomever is coaching up the offensive line. They are all improved over last year.

[Brian Fein]

...the offensive line looks better...

This cannot be understated.  The line has been a mess for a decade.  Finally, guys appear to be producing at an NFL-calibur level.  Now, let's just hope Connor Williams isn't seriously hurt becaus Eichenberg at Center is a turnover waiting to happen.

[Denver2]

Tua is not the prototype and unqualified former jocks who dominate the industry just can not accept it.

He’s a proven winner his college career is historic and it looks like he could be the best QB in Miami which as we all know would make him the best ever. He just needs a chip or two.

He has that X factor leadership, vision, desicion making and we are so lucky that McD got his confidence back after that jackass Flores nearly wrecked him.

Enjoy it fellas.

[EDGECRUSHER]

As a guy that's usually on the other side of that coin -

"haters gonna hate"

It takes a lot of guts to admit you were wrong about a guy. 

You nailed it. People do not like to admit that they were wrong, especially if they were obnoxious and adamant about it.

[Pappy13]

Tua is not the prototype and unqualified former jocks who dominate the industry just can not accept it.

He’s a proven winner his college career is historic and it looks like he could be the best QB in Miami which as we all know would make him the best ever. He just needs a chip or two.

He has that X factor leadership, vision, desicion making and we are so lucky that McD got his confidence back after that jackass Flores nearly wrecked him.

Enjoy it fellas.

Well I'm not ready to call him Marino like. Don't think anyone is ever going to be that good again in my lifetime. That doesn't mean we can't win a couple of championships with him. Marino was unfortunate to have never won a championship, it wasn't because he wasn't good enough.

[Pappy13]

The issue that I've had with the haters isn't even the criticisms of Tua.  That's fine -- you can find holes in someone's game or be concerned or whatever.  It's that the same standard of success didn't apply to other QBs.

Here's where I don't agree with you Dave. The first couple of years in Miami, Tua wasn't good. Nothing even remotely close to what he is now. Herbert really hasn't changed much from his first year in the league. There's no question that Herbert was better his first couple of years in the league and Tua has now surpassed Herbert and is playing better and he's getting PLENTY of credit for it now. So it's not that Tua was getting questioned and Herbert wasn't, it was that Tua was being outplayed by Herbert in the beginning. Not acknowledging that is Tua homerism in my opinion.

Success really doesn't factor into QB play for me. QB's can play really well and lose and they can play average and win. Neither means anything. All I look at is their personal performance. Whether the team wins or not doesn't matter for me because QB play doesn't dictate wins and losses for me. If anything, it's the other way around. Wins make a QB look better and losses make him look worse regardless of their actual play. The QB accounts for at most around 20% of the outcome of a game in my opinion which is more than any other single player on the field, but is still only 20% of the entire team for me. You can't discount 80% of the team just because it's the most important position. The 80% matters and a heck of a lot more than 20%, it's just that 80% is made up from about 25 to 30 other guys.

I give Tua all the credit in the world for what he's done this year, but to think he does this without Hill, Waddle, Moestert, Achane and an improved offensive line not to mention some of the best play calling that I've ever seen, just isn't fair. It's just not.