California raises its minimum wage to $20

[Phishfan]

I think you overvalued what it actually takes to learn a fast food job. I bet most anyone from this site can learn it all in a day or two, minus the back office stuff which probably isn't very difficult either. Customer service isn't a difficult skill to learn. That's why it's called unskilled labor. If someone has to go through extensive training for it I have to question their value.

[CF DolFan]

That's fine, but then you won't (and you don't) have staff at Dunkin' Donuts.  That's why you go to places and there's nobody behind the counter.

We actually have one of those that just opened a few weeks ago. It looks like a normal Dunkin' Donuts from the outside but once you go inside you order at a kiosk and pick up from the counter. No human interaction whatsoever and they don't have an option to order at a register. They have signs saying it's faster and easier to use the DD App. I went last Saturday morning for the first time and and surprisingly it was running pretty efficient even though busy.

[CF DolFan]

Your philosophy doesn't work in the US, where people working for poverty wages receive government assistance.

When you advocate for places like McDonald's or Walmart to pay adults less than a living wage, you are effectively subsidizing the profit of those businesses with taxpayer money.  And as we have seen over the past 4 years, corporations will raise prices whenever they think they can get away with it, whether their costs increase or not... so you aren't even "keeping prices low" by allowing these businesses to pay their staff pennies.
Then raise the prices.

Places like Walmart make plenty of money and are able to pay and offer benefits but who is going to pay $30 for a hamburger, fries and a drink? If you pay someone $20 an hour then then that employee has to sell $30 worth of product in an hour to make up for it and break even. Companies pay taxes and insurance on every person working.  Multiply that by every person working that isn't selling and the price goes up.

I don't understand why people have "plenty of customers" but would rather just fold up shop than attempt to raise prices to a sustainable revenue.  Again, we have big corporations out here gleefully price gouging and posting record profits, yet there are small businesses who won't raise prices even if the alternative is closing down entirely.

Plenty of customers means they were always busy or at least during times you would expect. It doesn't mean they turned a large profit. Again .... they can't charge $10 for a cone and $20 for a hotdog.

[Fau Teixeira]

You equate taking orders in a drive-thru to flying an airplane? I honestly don't know how to respond to that. I sure hope you don't select doctors the same way.

They don't get paid the same and they shouldn't. One skillset has more commercial value than another. But it doesn't make one job a "skilled" job and the other an "unskilled" job. They're just 2 jobs that have 2 different skills and 2 different values. But both require skill.

[Fau Teixeira]

Recently a popular local Coney Island hot dog and ice cream place closed down because the owners were killing themselves but couldn't afford to hire people to help them. They had plenty of business coming in but decided it better to work for other people.

if you can't make the economics work in a way that you aren't exploiting workers, then closing is the correct decision. Not every business deserves to survive.

[Fau Teixeira]

If you pay someone $20 an hour then then that employee has to sell $30 worth of product in an hour to make up for it and break even. Companies pay taxes and insurance on every person working.  Multiply that by every person working that isn't selling and the price goes up.

The economics of that is just not true. We see it in other places, for example Denmark, where the mcdonalds average wage is around $22/hr (thanks unions) while the price of the big mac is about the same as here. You can see this in the big mac index:
https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index

Big mac prices:
US - $5.69
Denmark - DKr39.00 ($5.68 at today's exchange rate)

The difference between the two. Unions in denmark don't put up with the kind of fast food sob story bullshit that started this thread in the first place.

I'm all for capitalism. But i'm sick and tired of hard nosed "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" capitalism for everyone, except for the rich and corporations who get to be capitalists with profits but all of a sudden are the most socialist groups when it comes to losses and bailouts.

If economics was football, companies would be playing offense, and in the US, barely anyone is playing defense. Unions, consumer groups, regulators. Those are the defense against rampant exploitation. Price gouging, monopolies and price fixing that's going on all over the place.

[CF DolFan]

The economics of that is just not true. We see it in other places, for example Denmark, where the mcdonalds average wage is around $22/hr (thanks unions) while the price of the big mac is about the same as here. You can see this in the big mac index:
https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index

Big mac prices:
US - $5.69
Denmark - DKr39.00 ($5.68 at today's exchange rate)

The difference between the two. Unions in denmark don't put up with the kind of fast food sob story bullshit that started this thread in the first place.

I'm all for capitalism. But i'm sick and tired of hard nosed "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" capitalism for everyone, except for the rich and corporations who get to be capitalists with profits but all of a sudden are the most socialist groups when it comes to losses and bailouts.

If economics was football, companies would be playing offense, and in the US, barely anyone is playing defense. Unions, consumer groups, regulators. Those are the defense against rampant exploitation. Price gouging, monopolies and price fixing that's going on all over the place.

You don't find it the least bit ironic that in one breath you say "Not every business deserves to survive" but then say all employees deserve to make  X number of dollars regardless of how much they are putting out?

BTW  ... I do agree with the business portion of it but I think more lower end job people are bitching themselves out of jobs more than they are getting more money. Like I said ... no human interaction at our new local Dunkin' Donuts and it's spreading.

[Spider-Dan]

Places like Walmart make plenty of money and are able to pay and offer benefits but who is going to pay $30 for a hamburger, fries and a drink?

Places like Walmart have more of their employees on government assistance than businesses paying everyone a minimum of $20/hour, that's for sure.

If you pay someone $20 an hour then then that employee has to sell $30 worth of product in an hour to make up for it and break even. Companies pay taxes and insurance on every person working.  Multiply that by every person working that isn't selling and the price goes up.

$30 is, what, two value meals an hour?  If your hourly customer-to-employee ratio is a number less than 2, your fast food business model isn't viable.

You don't find it the least bit ironic that in one breath you say "Not every business deserves to survive" but then say all employees deserve to make  X number of dollars regardless of how much they are putting out?

I am quite happy to make the following two statements without the slightest hint of irony or contradiction:

1) Not every business deserves to survive
2) Every employee deserves to survive

[CF DolFan]

Places like Walmart have more of their employees on government assistance than businesses paying everyone a minimum of $20/hour, that's for sure.

I think calling out Wal Mart and calling out every place of work is apples and oranges. I don't think most people would disagree about places like Wal-Mart. Home Depot and Lowes pay pretty well.

$30 is, what, two value meals an hour?  If your hourly customer-to-employee ratio is a number less than 2, your fast food business model isn't viable.

They are having to that for every employee who isn't selling too and we both know there are more people working behind the scenes than our front. You have to multiply that $30 and hour over 10 maybe 15 other people too.

I am quite happy to make the following two statements without the slightest hint of irony or contradiction:

1) Not every business deserves to survive
2) Every employee deserves to survive

We are going to have to agree to disagree on what "surviving" is. In my opinion your poor life decisions are not my fault. No reason I have to suffer in order to get a hamburger. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

They are having to that for every employee who isn't selling too and we both know there are more people working behind the scenes than our front. You have to multiply that $30 and hour over 10 maybe 15 other people too.

Try 1.5 - 3 not 10.

When was the last time you went to a fast food restaurant that had a total of 10 to 15 people working? And if there is a total of 10 people working then it is a very busy location with 3-4 cashiers.   

[CF DolFan]

Try 1.5 - 3 not 10.

When was the last time you went to a fast food restaurant that had a total of 10 to 15 people working? And if there is a total of 10 people working then it is a very busy location with 3-4 cashiers.   

That's easy. I went to Chick Fil A today so nah!! They probably had 10 people working the drive lanes itself.

[Spider-Dan]

And approximately how many cars were in line?
Do you think that Chick-Fil-A had at least 4 sales every 10 minutes?

[Fau Teixeira]

Bet you can't go to chick-fil-a today

[CF DolFan]

And approximately how many cars were in line?
Do you think that Chick-Fil-A had at least 4 sales every 10 minutes?

A ton of cars. I'd say easily 30+ as there are two lines around the building at anytime. It's crazy how efficient they are compared to everything else.

Bet you can't go to chick-fil-a today

Ok I give. Why is that?

[Dave Gray]

Ok I give. Why is that?

He wrote that on a Sunday.  That would be my guess.