If Biden were to step aside and Kamala Harris were the Democratic nominee

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If Obama's charisma is the key to winning the white house and it would be legal for him to be VEEP.  Than rather than Biden stepping aside he should replace Harris with Obama and leak his intention to resign on Jan 21, 2025.

And that is why it is almost certainly unconstitutional for Obama to be the VP. 

What might not be a bad idea is to give Obama a white house job as a senior advisor to the President. 

[Spider-Dan]

To say that it's legal for a termed-out president to run as VP is to sidestep the 22nd Amendment altogether, as you could perpetually just run as "VP" and have your "President" resign immediately after inauguration.

What I'm saying is that we should expect the Supreme Court to rule that Trump can run as VP in 2028 if he wins in 2024.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Rupert Murdoch must be lying there in his Vampire's Crypt laughing his head off...

There's on old saying in Australian politics: disunity is death (maybe it's worldwide, but it's been particularly poignant in this country)

Murdoch has sown the seeds of doubt, it's spread right across the mainstream media, and the Democrats are in a total mess right before the election. Up until the first debate, they didn't think they had anyone good enough to replace Biden to contest against Trump - or maybe they thought they could just coast it in on the back of his court cases?

Donations are reportedly drying up for the Democrats campaign, which spells real trouble. If someone does step in for Biden, it could potentially be a poisoned chalice.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, Dave, you got your wish... now it's time for 3 months of "When will Biden resign?" and "How long did Kamala Harris and the Democrats conspire to hide Biden's senility?" coverage.

The sickly hilarious part will be if the Democratic nominee is down 7 points on Labor Day (while Biden's polling has recovered, because he's not running) and the backstabbers start asking if there's a way to put Biden back on the ticket.

Overall, this has been a clinic on the media's ability to simply discard a primary winner by simply drowning them in negative press; a useful blueprint for the future.  Next January, ask yourself why you didn't see this kind of coverage when Trump won the GOP primaries in 2016, and you'll have an idea of why things are the way they are.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

.. now it's time for 3 months of "When will Biden resign?" and "How long did Kamala Harris and the Democrats conspire to hide Biden's senility?" coverage.

No, it is time to get out the message that the DNC is capable to recognize and fix problems.  Something the RNC has failed to do multiple times starting with "grab them by the pussy" to coffevve to Jam 6, to separating children from their parents to suggesting drinking bleach for covid to using a sharpie to alter a hurricane.   

[Spider-Dan]

Something the RNC has failed to do multiple times starting with "grab them by the pussy" to coffevve to Jam 6, to separating children from their parents to suggesting drinking bleach for covid to using a sharpie to alter a hurricane.

Is your argument that unwavering Republican support for their candidate is a... mistake?
Does it feel like a "mistake" right now?  Do you expect Republicans to be punished for this "mistake," or rewarded (again)?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Is your argument that unwavering Republican support for their candidate is a... mistake?
Does it feel like a "mistake" right now?  Do you expect Republicans to be punished for this "mistake," or rewarded (again)?

So is your intent to undermine democratic candidate because you didn't think Biden should step aside and if Trump wins you get to say "I told you so"?

I am saying that the message should be that there are adults in the room at the DNC but not the RNC.   

[Spider-Dan]

So is your intent to undermine democratic candidate because you didn't think Biden should step aside and if Trump wins you get to say "I told you so"?

I will have little patience for lectures on loyalty from the backstabbers who just successfully overturned the primary results.
If the Democratic nominee is down 5 points on Labor Day, while these same cowards will likely be frantically thrashing about trying to figure out if we can Do Something about the ticket, I will continue to work to make sure that Donald Trump is defeated on Election Day, just as I did in 2020 and 2016.

I am saying that the message should be that there are adults in the room at the DNC but not the RNC.

That message is at odds with the claim that winning is important (or, for that matter, that democracy is important).
Just ask the Republican Party.

[Dave Gray]

It seems like you're projecting with the "I told you so", Spider.  You accused me of wanting to do exactly what it looks like you want to do, which is to come at this with sour grapes.

This isn't a game to me.  I didn't think that Biden was capable of running the country for 4 1/2 more years.  And I thought he was gonna get his ass-whooped because of it.  So I spoke out and asked for him to step down.

Now, we may still lose, but I personally am invigorated and at least I think there's a possible path to victory now.

Also, it isn't backstabbing.  People used their free speech to ask him to walk away.  He polled so poorly, reflective of his own supporters wishes, and he did.  We didn't overturn a vote.  He chose to leave because the writing was on the wall.

Biden is a fucking American hero for what he did.  I'm glad I don't have to watch him get stomped and his legacy tarnished.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I will have little patience for lectures on loyalty from the backstabbers who just successfully overturned the primary results.

I didn’t want Biden to step aside.  And they weren’t backstabbers who overturned the primary.  They were people who convinced Biden that it would be in the best interest of the country for him to step aside.  Either Biden being of sound mind agreed.  In which case it was his decision to make and I accept it.  OR he is a feeble old man who was easily manipulated.  If it was the latter than probably a good idea anyhow.

 

[Denver2]

Biden did the right thing. It sucks because he is a great president, but elections are about optics. The public is stupid and doesn’t understand policy, they only can understand optics.

Harris may not win but Biden was not going too. That’s a fact. We have a shot now and we can make history. We can save this country try electorally and I will do all I can for VP Harris.

[Spider-Dan]

It seems like you're projecting with the "I told you so", Spider.  You accused me of wanting to do exactly what it looks like you want to do, which is to come at this with sour grapes.

Dave, I know you want to make this into a "You said [x] when you thought you were going to win, so now that I've won, I'm going to say [x] now" thing.  But here's the thing: you and I are not the same.  For example, I didn't threaten to stay home if Bloomberg won the 2020 primary, nor did I threaten to quit the party if Bernie won the most delegates but was not made the nominee (the absolute irony of the content in the latter linked post is simply amazing today).

See, I'm not one of these "Democrats" who believes that if I don't get what I want, I'm taking my ball and going home.  I understand what's at stake; I vote blue, no matter who.  And I'm absolutely not going to be lectured about "loyalty" from people who have no problem whatsoever discarding the primary results if they think the primary winner doesn't have the best shot in the general... especially when many of these same people were throwing fits about the mere possibility of this happening to Bernie.

There is no reason to believe your support for the eventual Democratic nominee will be any more durable than your "support" for Biden; it may crumble based on the next debate, or any point between now and November.  You are a weathervane, swinging with the polls.  Ultimately, your support cannot be trusted, and should be considered transitive and transactional from this point forward. (edit: unproductive comment; the situation is what it is)

Also, it isn't backstabbing.  People used their free speech to ask him to walk away.  He polled so poorly, reflective of his own supporters wishes, and he did.  We didn't overturn a vote.  He chose to leave because the writing was on the wall.

Yes, y'all used your constitutionally-guaranteed right to free speech to backstab the primary winner, attacking and undermining him until he felt the assault from his own "allies" was not survivable.

This is the precedent that has been set: if the media and the donors decide that a candidate must go, and their efforts successfully drive down his poll numbers, even an overwhelming primary victory shall be cast aside as his allies abandon him.  The democratic process of selecting a nominee is now optional, subject to a veto from the media if they so choose.

This entire episode has made one thing crystal clear: the media is absolutely willing and able to laser-focus wall-to-wall negative coverage on a candidate until he is forced to withdraw.  The reason why they didn't do it to Trump in 2016, or 2020, or right now is quite simple:

They don't want to.

[Fau Teixeira]

Ultimately, your support cannot be trusted, and should be considered transitive and transactional from this point forward.

To be fair, this is the assumption any and all politicians should work under. That's the only possible way a representative democracy can run. If they aren't representing you, then damn right your support should be considered transitive and transactional.

Voters don't owe a single thing to those they elect, in fact it's the opposite.

This is the precedent that has been set: if the media and the donors decide that a candidate must go, and their efforts successfully drive down his poll numbers, even an overwhelming primary victory shall be cast aside as his allies abandon him.  The democratic process of selecting a nominee is now optional, subject to a veto from the media if they so choose.

This is the predictable outcome of late stage capitalism, media consolidation and unlimited campaign contributions. Money talks.

If you want to fix this, support those who want to change this status quo. Vote for those who want public election funding, ranked choice voting and those that want to do away with corporate personhood.

[Dave Gray]

Spider, you're right -- we are not the same.

I don't have any loyalty to the Democratic party.  I never have and I don't know why you have that impression.  I don't owe anything to any politician and if they started doing things that I thought were bad, I'd drop them in a heartbeat.  That isn't the insult that you think it is.  In fact, often I dislike the Democratic party and have only voted for it because it's the closest of the options.

In my life, I'm not "blue no matter who".  I have only voted for Dems state and federally, but I've voted away from the party in local elections, usually for someone more progressive or without scandal or something.

You can cherry pick a comment about Michael Bloomberg that I said in frustration 4 years ago AFTER HE WAS OUT AND IT WAS A TOTAL HYPOTHETICAL (I never threatened anything), but ultimately I have told you that I'm sure I would've voted for Bloomberg anyway, but yes -- it would have pissed me off and I'd had to have held my nose.  ...and who knows...I'm not in a contested state, so maybe I would have sat out.

Edit: Since Jan 6th, I do think that I have to vote for any Democrat at any level from President to dog catcher no matter how much I dislike them.  I hope that won't always be the case.

But for Bernie, yes -- that's true.  I would've still voted for Hillary in that scenario (where she lost the vote, but were awarded the delegates anyway), but I would have changed my registered party affiliation.  

You and I may want to end up in similar places, but our strategies to get there might not be the same.  I am such a proponent of ranked choice voting and this is partially why.  I want to be able to expand past the Democratic party.  In terms of backstabbing, I don't even know what you mean.  Who's back did I stab?  I never had Joe's back in the first place to stab.  I would turn on any politician in a heartbeat if I thought they weren't the best option anymore.

[Pappy13]

Well, Dave, you got your wish... now it's time for 3 months of "When will Biden resign?" and "How long did Kamala Harris and the Democrats conspire to hide Biden's senility?" coverage.

The sickly hilarious part will be if the Democratic nominee is down 7 points on Labor Day (while Biden's polling has recovered, because he's not running) and the backstabbers start asking if there's a way to put Biden back on the ticket.

Overall, this has been a clinic on the media's ability to simply discard a primary winner by simply drowning them in negative press; a useful blueprint for the future.  Next January, ask yourself why you didn't see this kind of coverage when Trump won the GOP primaries in 2016, and you'll have an idea of why things are the way they are.

You know Spider maybe you're just wrong.

It's not just Republicans that have noticed the decline in Biden, a lot of people on both sides have seen it. Now, it's overblown on the Republican side that's for certain, but honestly I think this was the best thing to have happened. The Democratic party needed to find someone for the future and Biden isn't it. If the Democratic party can't nominate someone that would actually make a decent candidate than that's on the party. I'm hopeful that the Democratic party can figure out a way to actually put a decent candidate on the ballot that will easily defeat Trump. If it doesn't happen well at least there was the attempt.

This is what is supposed to happen. It should have happened on the Republican side a LONG time ago. This is what's wrong with the Republican party. Sticking way too long with someone who's popular with the voters but has zero business being the President. They ALL KNOW IT, but they're too damn scared to admit it. Is that what you want from the Democratic party too? This is why the Democratic party is better off, because they're actually able to look at themselves in the mirror and say "is this really the right thing to do"? This is a great example of Biden and the party putting the needs of the people over the needs of the party. I think your heart is in the right place but you're actually not looking at this logically. It needed to happen. Maybe it will be for the best and maybe it won't, but it needed to happen.