If Biden were to step aside and Kamala Harris were the Democratic nominee

[Phishfan]

Let's also be honest about calling Biden the primary winner. He was the default because his decline was being covered up. It was visible to anyone who looked but the exact extent was undoubtedly covered up. Had there been transparency I think you would have seen this same reaction sooner and there would have been an actual primary.

[Fau Teixeira]

you know, i didn't really follow the democratic primary debates, how did Biden do in those debates with the other democratic challengers ?

[Pappy13]

Let's make no mistake, it wasn't just Biden's name on the ballot in the primaries either, Harris was the presumptive VP as well. If she becomes the Democratic nominee then in essence the winner of the primaries is still on the ballot albeit as the President instead of the vice President. While that may not mean much, I still think it means something.

And lets be honest the election in November is as much about voting against Trump as it is voting for either Biden or someone else. I too have my doubts that Harris can win the election but that's mostly because of her gender which was my whole reason for bringing up this thread, but actually the comments in this thread has made me feel better about her. I honestly think she *might* be a better President than Biden was. I know she'll be a better President than Trump was. I personally think it would be a mistake for her not to be the nominee, but that's just me. I'll admit that I'm not really all that political.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Let's make no mistake, it wasn't just Biden's name on the ballot in the primaries either, Harris' name was there as well.

That varies state by state and I am willing to bet that in most states it wasn't.

The veep name is not normally on primary ballots because typically the VP is not announced until the nominee is secured.  It is also not uncommon for the VP candidate to be a candidate who dropped out. 

[Pappy13]

That varies state by state and I am willing to bet that in most states it wasn't.

The veep name is not normally on primary ballots because typically the VP is not announced until the nominee is secured.  It is also not uncommon for the VP candidate to be a candidate who dropped out.  

Yeah, I thought twice about that and changed it after I posted. Thanks for pointing it out tho. In this case though a vote for Biden as President was assumed to be a vote for Harris as VP as well, that's probably a better way to say it.

[Spider-Dan]

Let's also be honest about calling Biden the primary winner. He was the default because his decline was being covered up. It was visible to anyone who looked but the exact extent was undoubtedly covered up.

"Decline"?  "Cover up"?

The "Biden is old" story has been continuous since 2020, back when people were making silver alert jokes here.  Yet he still won that election and managed to govern quite effectively.

It's also somewhat disingenuous for people to say "The primary doesn't really count" after the fact, when during the primary lots of people were insisting that 12% of Michigan Democrats voting for Uncommitted meant Gaza was an election-losing policy for Biden.

[Spider-Dan]

If you want to fix this, support those who want to change this status quo. Vote for those who want public election funding, ranked choice voting and those that want to do away with corporate personhood.

The problem with platitudes like this is that voting for your favorite person in the general election - say, the Green Party candidate that promises ranked choice voting, public election funding, and a pony - helps elect Republicans, who appoint judges that make all of those things less possible.

[Spider-Dan]

This is what's wrong with the Republican party. Sticking way too long with someone who's popular with the voters but has zero business being the President.

I feel like we have a fundamental disagreement on how one wins elections in a democratic republic.

This is why the Democratic party is better off, because they're actually able to look at themselves in the mirror and say "is this really the right thing to do"? This is a great example of Biden and the party putting the needs of the people over the needs of the party.

That's not what this is.

All of the Biden backstabbers have no concern with how he has been able to perform his job (which is not the same thing as agreeing with all of his decisions).  This is purely, 1000% a "We think the voters won't like this" decision; if Biden were up 5 right now, none of this would have happened.

And that's my problem with how Democrats have handled this.  The lesson that should be learned from Republicans is not to run racist criminal sexual predators for office; it's that a unified front allows you to bulldoze your way past concerns about voter perception that don't REALLY matter.  "Voter perception" is not policy.  If you are fine with how Biden is running the country, you shouldn't let yourself be bullied into "But what do voters think?" navel-gazing by a cynical media that only wants to drive clicks.  And once you have surrendered to this tactic and confirmed its viability, like any bully, this won't end it; it'll make it worse.

But maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe this One Weird Trick will finally make the media actually start covering Donald Trump like a guy who is promising to be a dictator "on day 1," and not simply replace Biden with Harris in the manufactured scandal of the day.

[Pappy13]

I feel like we have a fundamental disagreement on how one wins elections in a democratic republic.

It's not the election we're talking about, it's who are the nominee's that we're talking about and yeah you're probably right about that.

All of the Biden backstabbers have no concern with how he has been able to perform his job (which is not the same thing as agreeing with all of his decisions).  This is purely, 1000% a "We think the voters won't like this" decision; if Biden were up 5 right now, none of this would have happened.

I can't speak for anyone else but I couldn't care less what the polls say. All I know is that I watched the debate with my wife and our reactions were the same; that neither of these guys should be President of the US. She was born and raised in Texas and her family are staunch Republicans if that means anything to you. She's been hoping the Republican party would replace Trump with a decent candidate for the last 8 years.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

All of the Biden backstabbers have no concern with how he has been able to perform his job (which is not the same thing as agreeing with all of his decisions).  This is purely, 1000% a "We think the voters won't like this" decision; if Biden were up 5 right now, none of this would have happened.

You don't know that.  It is possible that decision was made based on purely on electability vs. ability.  But it is also possible that people who actually interact with him on a regular basis and were encourage him to step aside are in fact worried about his declining health and ability to lead.   It was learned after the fact that Reagan was not running the government during his last term.

The reason why I lean toward the second theory is that I tend to believe that *IF* the debate was one bad night much more of his inner circle would have said so and defended his continuing in the race.  But if he was showing signs on a regular basis of decline and the debate was actually a good day, than I would expect the near universal support for him to step aside.  This many members of the leadership didn't tell Biden to step down because one poll had Harris 3 points higher.  

The best eveidence for the latter theory is that    

[Spider-Dan]

I can't speak for anyone else but I couldn't care less what the polls say. All I know is that I watched the debate with my wife and our reactions were that same; that neither of these guys should be President of the US.

And yet only one of them faced non-stop coverage about whether he should withdraw.
Only one of them was forced out of the race.
And Trump won't hear this question from the media again.

That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

[Fau Teixeira]

Trump is good for ratings and Biden being consistent and level headed is boring. The media is there for $$ and nothing else.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

And yet only one of them faced non-stop coverage about whether he should withdraw.
Only one of them was forced out of the race.
And Trump won't hear this question from the media again.

That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Than the Harris campaign manager ought be fired.

One of the central themes of this election is the mental fitness of candidates.  Harris needs to double and triple down on that. Half the ads for Harris should be clips of Trump rambling incoherently.

[Pappy13]

And yet only one of them faced non-stop coverage about whether he should withdraw.
Only one of them was forced out of the race.
And Trump won't hear this question from the media again.

Yeah, I haven't heard a single media person talk about how Trump isn't fit to run the country in the last 4 years. Are you kidding me? That's all I've heard non stop for the last 4 years. There's even been some legal cases about it. That horse has been beaten to death, it's not happening.

That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Exactly. Only one party was actually willing to go to their candidate and ask them to withdraw and only one candidate was actually willing to do what was best for the country. If Trump and the Republican party had .1% of the accountability that Biden and the Democratic party has shown Trump would have withdrawn from the race a long time ago. Again I understand where you are coming from, but it's not from a place of higher ethical standards. I don't agree with this idea that all that matters is winning and then we'll figure it out later, no we won't. Smart or not the Democratic party has taken the high road here.

[Pappy13]

Than the Harris campaign manager ought be fired.

One of the central themes of this election is the mental fitness of candidates.  Harris needs to double and triple down on that. Half the ads for Harris should be clips of Trump rambling incoherently.

Yeah and can we make it a rule that you have to actually answer the questions posed to you in the debate or your cut off? Anytime that Trump doesn't want to answer a question he just changes the question. As soon as he does that his microphone should be turned off. At the very least can we coach Harris to do the same thing?