GM talk (was Re: Game Balls - Texans)

[Dave Gray]

If you're happy with these new draft picks, like Sieler and Achane, remember who you want to fire in the off-season that brought them in.  You can't fire your way into success.

[CF DolFan]

If you're happy with these new draft picks, like Sieler and Achane, remember who you want to fire in the off-season that brought them in.  You can't fire your way into success.

Sieler wasn't drafted. He was waived by Baltimore in December and we claimed him off waivers and signed him to the practice squad. This was the covid year and we were looking for bodies. Grier got lucky with Sieler. He has hit on some players but he has missed on many more. how many freaking top picks did he have after dumping all of our players 6 years ago?  He also misses on decisions and things like never building a physical line. Writers and fans have been claiming this for many years and yet ... Grier has yet to figure out why we can't run the ball on short downs and now can't ever run. This team has gotten worse and not better.  

He's had 6 years to build a team and yet this team is completely flawed with some high dollar pieces just collecting checks. It's time for him to go  and give someone else a chance.

[Dave Gray]

I have no idea why I wrote Sieler...maybe I just read it while I was typing.  But I meant Chop Robinson.

But my point still stands with Sieler, too.  We went out and acquired him.

[Dave Gray]

I think we're a better team than we were 6 years ago.  And sure, you can say we got lucky with Sieler.  But then, you gotta say we got unlucky with Armstead.  Count the hits and misses the same, is all.

I just think back -- what's the last GM you didn't want to fire?  It just seems that we're so bloodthirsty for blame that we are wanting to can people without a viable change in strategy.

[CF DolFan]

So a few times he was right? That's basically anyone in that position.  

For every Achane there are 10 or more Kalen Ballages and Noah Igbinoghenes.  He's been rebuilding for 6 freaking years and we are not even going  to make the playoffs let alone win one. We are getting worse and some think we need to blow it up again. 23 seasons without winning a playoff game. He's been here 24 years and has been General Manager since 2016. At some point he has to be held accountable.

[CF DolFan]

I think we're a better team than we were 6 years ago.  And sure, you can say we got lucky with Sieler.  But then, you gotta say we got unlucky with Armstead.  Count the hits and misses the same, is all.

I just think back -- what's the last GM you didn't want to fire?  It just seems that we're so bloodthirsty for blame that we are wanting to can people without a viable change in strategy.

Adam Gase - 23 wins and 25 losses (0.479) 1 playoff loss
Brian Flores - 24 wins and 25 losses (0.489)
Mike McDaniel - 26 wins and 24 losses (.520) 2 playoff losses

That's our last 9 years in a nutshell under Grier. If that's better then apparently it doesn't take much to impress you.

BTW ... Armstead was injury prone prior to Miami. That's some of the bad judgements I'm talking about. We should have expected it to be how it has been with him.

[Dave Gray]

I just don't 1:1 the team's record to the decisions of the GM.

I'm not even pro Grier -- I just think that we are a better team than we were when he started.  I am unhappy with the line play, but overall, I think we have a decent roster and have had good talent and a fun team to watch.  It doesn't mean we haven't made errors.



I just think you can't fire your way to success.  If you want to point out some specific choices and say that should cost him his job because they were stupid or reckless or whatever, fine -- but just to point at record and kick out the GM -- it's lazy.

And even if you were to do that and use your numbers, it would suggest that the team continues to improve. 
Under Tannenbaum's regime: .453
Then it continues to get better and better under Grier every few years...every data point is better than the previous, with the biggest jump coming in the last 3 seasons.

If you were to follow the same trend, you'd expect the team to follow the course and keep getting better as you phase out the old players, no???   If you're trying to analyze the number, they clearly say that you keep Grier.

[masterfins]

I don't see the point in firing Grier, he hasn't done a terrible job, and I like him more than prior GM's.  You lose free agents you want to keep because of the salary cap.  You can only draft players available when your turn comes.  You can only sign free agents that want to come here at a price you can afford.

And once the team is assembled it's up to the coaches and coordinators, which he doesn't control.  He also can't control injuries.  He hasn't been perfect, no GM is, but I'm happy with the moves he's made.

[CF DolFan]

Barry Jackson today in the Miami Herald  ... "While Texans draft picks thrived, none of 32 players - not a single one of them - in the 1st 5 years of drafts since this rebuild began did anything significant for Dolphins Sunday. 25 didn't play."

I get that some people only see the good in things but if this was a test ... Chris Grier would have failed miserably. The Rams are starting two rookies on defense who are doing very well. The Eagles do too. They possibly have 4 of the top 10 best rookies in the league right now. The best we have is a part time pass rusher we are hoping will learn to defend the run. Project players have cost us time and time again. We need to draft people who can contribute right away, and unless we draft super high, and he isn't the guy based on his history.

[Spider-Dan]

Jackson obviously isn't counting last year's draft (Chop played well), so let's say he's counting 2019-2023.  So let's look at the high-impact first-rounders over those years...

2019: Christian Wilkins isn't on the Dolphins but also isn't playing for the team he is currently on, due to injury.
2020: Tua*, AJ is injured, Igbo is a legit miss
2021: Waddle*, Philips is injured
2022: pick was traded for Tyreek*
2023: one pick was forfeited due to owner; other pick was traded for Chubb, who is injured

So I guess if the argument is that Grier wasted a bunch of early picks on players who are not healthy today... fine, I guess?
The other point that could be made is that Waddle and Tyreek were not worth the picks used on them, which seems incompatible with all the "any QB could succeed with these Amazing Weapons" charge that is frequently leveled at Tua.

And that brings us, inevitably, to Tua.  Everyone has their own opinion on him and it's pretty much set by now.  So if the argument Jackson is making is that the rebuild is a failure because Tua is a failed pick, fine.  But he should just say that.

[Dave Gray]

Also, all of this is kinda due to the same issue.

If Tua has a bad game or more largely, if we don't have a great game passing, then Tua/Waddle/Hill -- they're kind of all in the same boat.  You don't have your two stud receivers have a great day and your QB play poorly.

Also, one game sample size.

- O-line isn't good enough to have a fully open playbook.  ...lacks balance/running game
- Health

That's really what it comes down to.

[CF DolFan]

Jackson obviously isn't counting last year's draft (Chop played well), so let's say he's counting 2019-2023.  So let's look at the high-impact first-rounders over those years...

2019: Christian Wilkins isn't on the Dolphins but also isn't playing for the team he is currently on, due to injury.
2020: Tua*, AJ is injured, Igbo is a legit miss
2021: Waddle*, Philips is injured
2022: pick was traded for Tyreek*
2023: one pick was forfeited due to owner; other pick was traded for Chubb, who is injured

So I guess if the argument is that Grier wasted a bunch of early picks on players who are not healthy today... fine, I guess?
The other point that could be made is that Waddle and Tyreek were not worth the picks used on them, which seems incompatible with all the "any QB could succeed with these Amazing Weapons" charge that is frequently leveled at Tua.

And that brings us, inevitably, to Tua.  Everyone has their own opinion on him and it's pretty much set by now.  So if the argument Jackson is making is that the rebuild is a failure because Tua is a failed pick, fine.  But he should just say that.

LOL ... if that's how you want to make excuses for him you need to step it up.  Wilkens is gone because Chris didn't sign him soon enough so he played the market and won. Chris never resigns our guys but will quickly overpay for others. Giving up draft picks and over paying players (we had to give inflated contracts to get them to agree with the trade)is not a win. that's poor drafting.  Besides those two guys have not made a dent on the board this year in the whole scheme of things. Even our top picks aren't contributing. Waddle is a non factor in most games this year.  The fact is we don't have drafted players making an impact, and in fact have spent a ton of money and giving up picks bringing in free agents because of our failed drafting, proves he is not good at his job to many of us.  

BTW, I think Tua is good enough to win but he needs help ... especially on the offensive line. He needs a run game and time to throw against physical defenses. He is more Matt Ryan than Josh Allen. We'd be about the same had they gone with Justin Herbert IMO.

Also, all of this is kinda due to the same issue.

If Tua has a bad game or more largely, if we don't have a great game passing, then Tua/Waddle/Hill -- they're kind of all in the same boat.  You don't have your two stud receivers have a great day and your QB play poorly.

Also, one game sample size.

- O-line isn't good enough to have a fully open playbook.  ...lacks balance/running game
- Health

That's really what it comes down to.

This wasn't a one game sample if you've been watching.  We've beaten one decent team and they were on the rebound. We are 1-13 against above .500 teams.  This game wasn't in bad elements but they were physical and we played exactly how we had done in the past against good teams. Either you only look at one game for the total assessment to make excuses or you look at the whole and see just how bad it really is. We either are extremely unlucky or the person getting our groceries is failing in a mighty way.

[Spider-Dan]

If Wilkins had been paid, last year or any other year, Barry Jackson's statement still would be exactly as true: Wilkins would have been on the sideline Sunday, watching with AJ, Chubb, and Phillips.  And I'm not sure why anyone would think Wilkins should have been paid in the first place: the defense was never anything special when he was on the team, so why keep him?  Last year the Dolphins had the #1 offense and that's still apparently not enough to stop people from declaring the entire project a failure because they didn't win when it counted.

And like I said: if one wants to say that Waddle and Tyreek were "failed acquisitions" then that's certainly a position, but given all the talk over the last 2 years about how the Dolphins have these incredible offensive weapons, it doesn't make sense to now claim that those weapons have been trash all along.

[CF DolFan]

If Wilkins had been paid, last year or any other year, Barry Jackson's statement still would be exactly as true: Wilkins would have been on the sideline Sunday, watching with AJ, Chubb, and Phillips.  And I'm not sure why anyone would think Wilkins should have been paid in the first place: the defense was never anything special when he was on the team, so why keep him?  Last year the Dolphins had the #1 offense and that's still apparently not enough to stop people from declaring the entire project a failure because they didn't win when it counted.

And like I said: if one wants to say that Waddle and Tyreek were "failed acquisitions" then that's certainly a position, but given all the talk over the last 2 years about how the Dolphins have these incredible offensive weapons, it doesn't make sense to now claim that those weapons have been trash all along.

First off there is no guarantee Wilkins would have been hurt here but I'll give you that because it is a possibility. The fact you say the defense was nothing special is true but our DTs were as solid as they come and Christian was good enough to always require a double team. Wilkens and Sieler almost never came off the field during defensive plays. We replaced Christian with a part-time 38 year old.

"project a failure because they didn't win when it counted." Now you are starting to get it. It's not about style points. It's about wins and losses when it matters most. It's about competing in the playoffs when you haven't for 23 years. Not a good record to hold.

Lastly ... don't even get me started about Chris not even making an offer to AVG who stated he hoped to stay with the Dolphins. I'm glad it worked out for AVG but that was a Grier failure from day one and everyone but he saw that coming.

[Spider-Dan]

I split the thread, as it has gone WAY off-topic from the Texans game.