GM talk (was Re: Game Balls - Texans)

[Spider-Dan]

The fact you say the defense was nothing special is true but our DTs were as solid as they come and Christian was good enough to always require a double team.

But... the defense was much worse than the offense!  It's like the inverse of the 00/01 Dolphins: they had an arguably-top-tier defense that couldn't carry the team in big moments, while the offense was always mediocre-to-below-average.  And the Dolphins with Wilkins (and AVG, who had 5 years in Miami to show something) were exactly the opposite: a top-tier offense that couldn't carry the team in the biggest moments, with a consistently mediocre-to-below-average defense.  I mean, you talk about Waddle and Tyreek failing to show up in big games, but the defense allowed 38 points to the Ravens (in a game the offense won), allowed 40 points to Zach Wilson when Tua was out, allowed 34 points to the Chargers in another game the offense won, allowed touchdowns on the first 3 BUF possessions en route to giving up 48 points to the Bills, allowed 28 points at home (and 15 points in 3 minutes) to one of the worst teams in the league, and allowed 56 points to the Ravens with a chance to clinch the division.  To whatever degree the offense deserves criticism, the defense deserves far more.

While we're here, let's talk about AVG: again, he had plenty of time to show something in Miami before the Dolphins used a first-round draft pick on Jaelan Phillips and spent another first-round pick trading for Bradley Chubb.  Why should the Dolphins have given AVG a $20M contract when he would be backing up Chubb and Phillips next year?

Calais Campbell has honestly outplayed Wilkins (at a much cheaper price) so I don't understand the complaining about Wilkins at all.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Lastly ... don't even get me started about Chris not even making an offer to AVG who stated he hoped to stay with the Dolphins. I'm glad it worked out for AVG but that was a Grier failure from day one and everyone but he saw that coming.

You can argue both ways about Grier's drafting record, but we should all be able to agree his salary cap management is a complete failure and a huge reason for this mess.

Some may say our defense last year was average, but prior to this season, it was able to generate a short field for our offense. This one can't. It's in the bottom third for INTs and near the basement for sacks and forced fumbles. Most of that is the departure of a lot of players drafted by Grier that we couldn't afford to keep, because Grier chose to grossly overpay select few (who have rewarded us with under performing) and let them walk.

Sure, Wilkins got overpaid to move to the Raiders, but you can't tell me that AVG and Brandon Jones wouldn't be very handy in this team right now. Instead Grier chose to award huge guaranteed money increases to Tua and Waddle (early) as well as Hill and Ramsey. He didn't have to do it - he could have waited another year for Tua and up to two years for Waddle. He could have left Hill's contract as it was - if he did, I bet he would probably have been cut at the end of this season with a much smaller cap-hit. The way it is now, I doubt another team would want to pick him up, and if they did we will still be paying a small fortune (and in a salary cap hell). Chubb's situation will be a nightmare to deal with next season on top of everything else (unless it's massively restructured, and he really has no incentive to do it).

The team last year was so much better balanced, with a lot more of those high end draft picks still with us. Grier could have put off the payday decisions for 12 months and at least given us a shot at something this year. Instead he jumped early and ripped apart the team he built, and this is what you get. Yes, he probably would have been looking at the same decisions at the end of this season, but we would have had a chance.

Next season will be even worse courtesy of those contracts and what Chubb is supposed to make. If you're hurting now, there's a lot more pain to come.

[Spider-Dan]

All the AVG talk is pure uncut hindsight.  If he had shown any kind of promise during his 5 years in Miami (any hint that he could play like he is in MIN), the Dolphins would not have spent 2 first-round picks on edge rushers with AVG on the roster.

[Denver2]

If anyone gets fired it should be Grier over McDaniel but honestly..keep them both for at least one more year, a new GM with same coach isn’t going to fix it or vice versa.

Some of Griers picks have been baffling like those secondary guys whose name I can’t remember and outside of Tua and Waddle our first round picks seem lackluster but we also got absolute steals like Achane. If that kid had a line worth shit he’d be 1500 yards by now he’s that good and when he had some push up front he looked like the second coming of Barry Sanders

But this is where we are give everyone another year and if you need to blow up the team again then do it I guess.


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Ok so we know Flores sucks and he tried to sabotage Tua but was he right in wanting Herbert or Jordan Love over Tua?

Is the problem with our franchise the fact that dumb ass Ryan Fitzpatrick pulled out 6 games and we lost out on Joe Burrow?

You know who deserves the ring of dishonor? Matt Moore his gutsy ass won too many games and we got Tanny instead of Andrew Luck

[Downunder Dolphan]

Ok so we know Flores sucks and he tried to sabotage Tua but was he right in wanting Herbert or Jordan Love over Tua?

What sucks is that Flores broke the team down to its basics in his first season and nobody expected them to win anything. The team rallied thinking no one was better than anyone else (within the team as well as outside), and it was a genuine team building rally cry. It ended up being a positive building block.

But he was too inflexible and went OTT, treating everyone like crap... the wheels started falling off when Minka was smarter than him and wouldn't take his crap. So he got his ass shipped out, and Flores didn't take that as a personal failure, he was right and everyone had to deal with it. Right up to nuggetting the franchise QB. At that point he'd basically lost the team, and the trigger had to be pulled.

Enter McD. Like I said elsewhere, he was a breath of fresh air, freedom and creative ideas... at first, it really worked. But there's no real discipline. The moment you hear of hotheads like Ramsey and Poyer loudmouthing that the team has to be harder, it's a player driven culture, and they're the guys to lead it... something's seriously wrong.

For what seemed to be a brief moment, somewhere in between when Flores left and McD first took over, you had a team that was united and there for the goal of winning a championship. Not in Miami for the tax breaks, for the sunshine, the lifestyle, the big contracts. That has changed, it's looking like were right back to what it was before Flores arrived, before the goldmine of draft picks from the Tunsil deal started, and when we had a shitload of cap space. That's the well we've dropped into, and what really sucks right now.

[CF DolFan]

All the AVG talk is pure uncut hindsight.  If he had shown any kind of promise during his 5 years in Miami (any hint that he could play like he is in MIN), the Dolphins would not have spent 2 first-round picks on edge rushers with AVG on the roster.

This is absolute BS. All AVG did was makes plays when given the chance. It's not like he just had one good game or season. He finally got more playing time and you were forced to recognize it. Same with Sieler. It was crazy it took 3 years for him to see significant time but he was always making plays when he had the chance.

Calais Campbell has honestly outplayed Wilkins (at a much cheaper price) so I don't understand the complaining about Wilkins at all.

Campbell was brought in as a part time player. Wilkins played almost every down and took on 2 defenders much of the time and yet was still a huge force in the run defense.  I really love Campbell (who doesn't?) but Wilkins was better for the team overall. Campbell would have been an awesome change of pace for Wilkins and Seiler.

[Downunder Dolphan]

This is absolute BS. All ACG did was makes plays when given the chance. It's not like he just had one good game or season. He finally got more playing time and you were forced to recognize it. Same with Sieler. It was crazy it took 3 years for him to see significant time but he was always making plays when he had the chance.

Yep I agree. It was rumored as soon as Fangio ditched us for the Eagles he wanted AVG up there, and as we know now, Flores wanted AVG too.

He took a 1 year deal previously to remain because Fangio convinced him to stay, and Grier clearly undervalued him compared to (cough...) other players and let him walk. Grier screwed up on this one, pure and simple.

[Downunder Dolphan]

If you took the best bits of Flores and McDaniel, you could have one hell of a good coach.

We never got the whole package.

[Spider-Dan]

This is absolute BS. All AVG did was makes plays when given the chance. It's not like he just had one good game or season. He finally got more playing time and you were forced to recognize it. Same with Sieler. It was crazy it took 3 years for him to see significant time but he was always making plays when he had the chance.

AVG started 11 games in 2020 and 14 games in 2021.  MIA still had a glaring need for pass rush which led to drafting Phillips and trading for Chubb.

[CF DolFan]

While across the board they all admit he is a great guy ... pretty much all the writers are calling for Grier's head. Chris Perkins is the only one I've seen saying give them both one more year. Adam Beasley pointed out today with Joe Rose and Kim Bokamper that there are a lot of GMs with better records who were fired.

On the opposite end I haven't seen any writer calling for McDaniel to be let go just yet.

[Spider-Dan]

Adam Beasley pointed out today with Joe Rose and Kim Bokamper that there are a lot of GMs with better records who were fired.

Like whom?

Not Dennis Hickey, who was 14-18 (.438) with 0 playoff appearances and 0 winning seasons.
Not Jeff Ireland, who was 46-50 (.479) with 1 playoff appearance and 1 winning season.
Not Randy Mueller, who was 16-32 (.333) with 0 playoff appearances and 1 winning season.
In comparison, Grier is 73-74 (.496) with 3 playoff appearances and 5 winning seasons.

[Spider-Dan]

how many freaking top picks did he have after dumping all of our players 6 years ago?

This question deserves an answer.  Let's look at Miami's first-round picks since the Tunsil trade:

2020- Tua at #5 (own pick), AJ at #18 (PIT pick from Minkah), Igbo at #30 (HOU pick from Tunsil)
2021- Waddle at #6 (more Tunsil aftermath), Phillips at #18 (own pick)
2022- own pick at #15 sent to PHI (Waddle aftermath), #29 sent to KC for Tyreek (Tunsil)
2023- own pick at #21 forfeited (Stephen Ross), #29 sent to DEN for Chubb (Tunsil)
2024- Chop at #21 (own pick)

So MIA's first-round haul over the past 5 years is Tua, AJ, Igbo, Waddle, Phillips, Tyreek, Chubb, and Chop (with the owner throwing a first in the fire, mind you).
There is exactly one bad acquisition in that list and it's arguable that Grier was placating Flores with the Igbo pick (remember: Grier drafted Minkah before Flores arrived).

[CF DolFan]

Like whom?

Not Dennis Hickey, who was 14-18 (.438) with 0 playoff appearances and 0 winning seasons.
Not Jeff Ireland, who was 46-50 (.479) with 1 playoff appearance and 1 winning season.
Not Randy Mueller, who was 16-32 (.333) with 0 playoff appearances and 1 winning season.
In comparison, Grier is 73-74 (.496) with 3 playoff appearances and 5 winning seasons.

You are funny. I'm pretty sure it wasn't specifically directed towards the Dolphins considering neither Ross nor Huizenga are known for being good at hiring and firing. In fact both are known as being too lenient in retaining people.

This question deserves an answer.  Let's look at Miami's first-round picks since the Tunsil trade:

2020- Tua at #5 (own pick), AJ at #18 (PIT pick from Minkah), Igbo at #30 (HOU pick from Tunsil)
2021- Waddle at #6 (more Tunsil aftermath), Phillips at #18 (own pick)
2022- own pick at #15 sent to PHI (Waddle aftermath), #29 sent to KC for Tyreek (Tunsil)
2023- own pick at #21 forfeited (Stephen Ross), #29 sent to DEN for Chubb (Tunsil)
2024- Chop at #21 (own pick)

So MIA's first-round haul over the past 5 years is Tua, AJ, Igbo, Waddle, Phillips, Tyreek, Chubb, and Chop (with the owner throwing a first in the fire, mind you).
There is exactly one bad acquisition in that list and it's arguable that Grier was placating Flores with the Igbo pick (remember: Grier drafted Minkah before Flores arrived).

LOL .... He still hasn't fielded a team that can beat above average teams so just how good are those guys? He's had some hits with a ton of top picks. That's a luxury few GMs ever get.  He also has failed to field a good team over that time and has a severely poor record against above .500 teams. His teams don't just lose but lose badly to them most of the time.

Most of us can kick ass at work 50% of the time but if we failed the other 50% we're going to be shown the door very quickly.

Everyone knows the offensive line is the biggest issue with this team and yet Grier not only laughed about it... he made fun of everyone who questioned them about it. We have small quick guys who get beat up when they play legit teams and it happens pretty much every single time. We are so far away from being a Buffalo, Baltimore, Detroit, Philly, or Kansas City it isn't even funny.

The good thing for Grier is we play two really bad teams and should end with a winning season ... although not against any good teams. Expect us to run it back and be mediocre again next year as well.

[Spider-Dan]

LOL .... He still hasn't fielded a team that can beat above average teams so just how good are those guys? He's had some hits with a ton of top picks. That's a luxury few GMs ever get.  He also has failed to field a good team over that time and has a severely poor record against above .500 teams.

Grier is neither a player nor a coach.  All he can do is try to acquire quality players for the team.  He has no control over injuries; if your argument is that Grier should have spent less money on starters and more money on backups, then make that argument: tell us which starters should have been cut or traded.

If you're just going to point at the scoreboard, then there's no point in even bringing up "how many top picks" Grier had; the results are the results.  I think Grier has done a good job getting quality players, and it doesn't seem like you can even dispute that part.  You're just saying that since the team hasn't won, Grier needs to be fired.

[CF DolFan]

He is responsible for obtaining injury prone player when they have a history of injury. Otherwise .. you're arguing semantics.  I've already said he has made some good picks. This doesn't change the fact he has yet to field a team that is a Super Bowl contender or anywhere close. We never compete against the good teams although a few games we bored Buffalo enough to keep us in the game. We are good at best but still very far away from being a great team. 

I really do not understand the fight for mediocrity. We are the best of the mediocre teams. The Dolphins will most likely win the last two games, albeit against two really bad teams, giving us a fake winning record. The people wanting them to make the playoffs too are a bit sadistic to me. It physically hurts me to watch them get pummeled in these cold games against good teams so I don't see the benefit.